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B trail washout


Muskoka Man

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44 minutes ago, Muskoka Man said:

Hello OFSC

It is a club / district issue.

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41 minutes ago, sledjunk said:

It is a club / district issue.

 

1 hour ago, Muskoka Man said:

Hello OFSC

You need to add MNR to the equation...

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1 hour ago, Cuyuna said:

 

You need to add MNR to the equation...

Who ???

We have a major washout in our C trail north, which is a a major logging road that is supposed to be maintained.

MNR's answer was we cant afford the fix it. 

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6 minutes ago, soupkids said:

Who ???

We have a major washout in our C trail north, which is a a major logging road that is supposed to be maintained.

MNR's answer was we cant afford the fix it. 

They may not be able to afford to make repairs, but they will certainly mandate how the repairs are to be done. Nothing happens without their approval on Crown lands.

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9 hours ago, Cuyuna said:

They may not be able to afford to make repairs, but they will certainly mandate how the repairs are to be done. Nothing happens without their approval on Crown lands.

I would go ahead and get it fixed without the MNR. The old saying is that forgiveness is easier to get than permission. I've seen the truth in that adage along the river at our summer place.

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It's not like someone is pushing a road thru Crown Land. 

 

Ask the MNR how they plan to access the area should a fire break out...

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10 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I would go ahead and get it fixed without the MNR. The old saying is that forgiveness is easier to get than permission. I've seen the truth in that adage along the river at our summer place.

 

For the most part - I live that mentality, BUT....

 

One club (?) in District 16 tossed a clean, used, one owner mobile home frame over a crick. Cheap and works fine...

 

Someone reported it and District 16 had to git an excavator in there as soon as it semi froze, to lift it back out.

Had to edge prep the shore on both sides, and doo God knows what paperwork study on the resulting health of the speckled trout known to be in the crick.

 

I just don't understand the BS!

 

Now - this was in the late 90's mind you.

I'm sure it's only gotten worster since then. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ox said:

 

For the most part - I live that mentality, BUT....

 

One club (?) in District 16 tossed a clean, used, one owner mobile home frame over a crick. Cheap and works fine...

 

Someone reported it and District 16 had to git an excavator in there as soon as it semi froze, to lift it back out.

Had to edge prep the shore on both sides, and doo God knows what paperwork study on the resulting health of the speckled trout known to be in the crick.

 

I just don't understand the BS!

 

Now - this was in the late 90's mind you.

I'm sure it's only gotten worster since then. 

 

 

So, your saying it’s ok to off a population of speckled trout (or whatever), so you can snowmobile?  This is exactly why the regulations and “BS” is in place.  Why destroy the environment when a well planned crossing can work better and probably last longer? 

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35 minutes ago, Bucking Pig said:

So, your saying it’s ok to off a population of speckled trout (or whatever), so you can snowmobile?  This is exactly why the regulations and “BS” is in place.  Why destroy the environment when a well planned crossing can work better and probably last longer? 

I understand what you are saying if you are disturbing the waterway by doing something different than what was previously in place at the crossing. What Ox was talking about was a steel frame for a bridge that would have not likely touch the water at all. I'm pretty sure that would not "off" a fish population.  If you replace exactly what was there previously for years and do a good job of the work then I  personally don;t see an issue that either.. 

Edited by PISTON LAKE CRUISER
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3 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I understand what you are saying if you are disturbing the waterway by doing something different than what was previously in place at the crossing. What Ox was talking about was a steel frame for a bridge that would have not likely touch the water at all. I'm pretty sure that would not "off" a fish population.  If you replace exactly what was there previously for years and do a good job of the work then I  personally don;t see an issue that either.. 

The parents had to jump thru hoops to replace an existing bridge... There had been bridges in the same spot since the mid-Thirties.

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Both good points, however, placing a camper frame or other ad-hoc structures over a creek, while it may work for a short term, for a snowmobile, is not engineered to hold the weight of a groomer + snow, never mind what some joker might try to use it for in the off season.   If it fails, the MNRF is on the hook, liability wise, because it’s on Crown Land.  That’s why they’re so anal about it.  I’m aware of a similar situation that occurred north of Nipigon.  The club installed an old truck frame across a river.  Unfortunately, it wasn’t long enough, so the contractor pushed the banks into the river until it fit. It was not pretty.  I can assure you that asking forgiveness later didn’t work, and it was expensive to fix.  

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36 minutes ago, Bucking Pig said:

Both good points, however, placing a camper frame or other ad-hoc structures over a creek, while it may work for a short term, for a snowmobile, is not engineered to hold the weight of a groomer + snow, never mind what some joker might try to use it for in the off season.   If it fails, the MNRF is on the hook, liability wise, because it’s on Crown Land.  That’s why they’re so anal about it.  I’m aware of a similar situation that occurred north of Nipigon.  The club installed an old truck frame across a river.  Unfortunately, it wasn’t long enough, so the contractor pushed the banks into the river until it fit. It was not pretty.  I can assure you that asking forgiveness later didn’t work, and it was expensive to fix.  

Good point about the groomer+ snow weights. In this washout case, it had/has a culvert in it. If the damage was properly fixed with a new culvert then why would that be an issue? The fish habitat is already long past destroyed by the washout. I'm pretty sure if this was a traveled sideroad or highway it would get fixed the same way very quickly by the municipality or MTO contractor.

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10 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Good point about the groomer+ snow weights. In this washout case, it had/has a culvert in it. If the damage was properly fixed with a new culvert then why would that be an issue? The fish habitat is already long past destroyed by the washout. I'm pretty sure if this was a traveled sideroad or highway it would get fixed the same way very quickly by the municipality or MTO contractor.

Agreed.  This one SHOULD be a fairly quick fix.   Unfortunately, many structures that have been in place for a long time do not meet today’s standards, and when they do fail, need to be replaced with a larger structure.  Flood events are getting worse and more frequent, whether you accept climate change or not, and it’s just prudent to install a crossing that’s not going to fail again next spring.  I’m vaguely familiar with this road, and am pretty sure it’s been around forever. I’m sure the water crossings ( even though they’ve lasted this long) do not meet current standards, and should be upgraded so they don’t blow out again and cause more damage, and end up costing even more money. 

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One of the clubs here had to replace a brand new culvert because the contractor installing it bent the end over about 4" when it was installed.

The bend was on the top.

Stupid in my mind.

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If MNR is involved that washout will be there this sled season I'm afraid and no way around it 

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34 minutes ago, gobills said:

Hcsa and msr will get it fixed, it's a big link between the two systems.  Also if there is winter logging then it will definately be fixed.

Probably quicker in that instance.

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Fill it with logs and brush on the first trip with the groomer.

That method is a staple up here.

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4 hours ago, soupkids said:

Fill it with logs and brush on the first trip with the groomer.

That method is a staple up here.

The pic doesn’t show but the washout is 12 ft deep and 20 ft wide and 30 ft in length ,just putting in the new culvert and all the fill in this area will be a task in itself ,I’m sure the MNR will drag their feet and not help out the clubs what so ever 

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3 hours ago, Muskoka Man said:

The pic doesn’t show but the washout is 12 ft deep and 20 ft wide and 30 ft in length ,just putting in the new culvert and all the fill in this area will be a task in itself ,I’m sure the MNR will drag their feet and not help out the clubs what so ever 

You would be surprised what brush can fill and snow can cover.

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On 9/13/2019 at 7:20 PM, Bucking Pig said:

So, your saying it’s ok to off a population of speckled trout (or whatever), so you can snowmobile?  This is exactly why the regulations and “BS” is in place.  Why destroy the environment when a well planned crossing can work better and probably last longer? 

 

As I understood it at the time, there wouldn't have been anything to damage the fishies.

Now - your concern aboot driving a groomer over it could be a concern, but I would like to think that the group that did it took that into consideration at the time.

But even if it bent under load - doesn't hardly seem that it could hurt more than one fishy that happened to be in the wrong place at the time?

 

Also note that I said "mobile home" - not "motor home".

 It wasn't a camper frame.

But those are not overly heavy by any means either...

 

You should see the old wood bridge that Wawa drove over just south of Cross-Over Road (north warm-up shack / gas box on D) before they started going around on Bauparlante Road. (sp?)

Now you miss that north warm-up shack altogether - by aboot 30 meters only....

Now - the one safety issue there is that if'n you did go through the bridge, the old VW Bug that sits in the bottom might break your fall...

Edited by Ox
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  • 1 month later...

Update for anyone wondering what's going on.   The government is involved in this which really slows things down to almost a screeching halt.  Sounds like there is no hope for it to be repaired this winter.

 

What it sounds like is going to happen this winter is there is going to be about 300 feet or so of goat path.

 

Sounds like the clubs are going to groom to each side and turn around.

Edited by gobills
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Heaven forbid if they find any frost lichen...

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Yup seen this out come so as I looked at the washout . Can't even see clubs grooming up to this and turning around making it a dead end also with all the road work near this area from the loggers I seen they are going to be in there heavy this winter .sad to say but this might be a area to avoid 

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