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Another PQ 'Urban Legend'?


revrnd

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I thought I had heard of everything & now this: 

(from DooTalk)

Quote

Just spent a couple of days riding in Quebec and were stopped by a group of trail wardens outside Nominique. As we were from Ottawa, Ont, we had our sleds with custom numbers and a validation sticker which is totally legal in Ontario. The warden informed us that the QPP do not consider it legal in Quebec and that they had fined some Ontario riders the previous weekend. The warden stated the QPP want to see the ugly white 4"x 6" sticker with the blue numbers affixed to the sled tunnel to be legal in Quebec.

 

I do know Ontario and Quebec have a highway traffic act reciprocal agreement for fines, demerit points, registration which makes it legal for example, for a Quebec car to be driven in Ontario with only a rear plate. I would think that this would also make a legal in Ontario sled legal in Quebec... but I'm not a lawyer..........

 

Anyways, has anyone else heard of this? I do a bunch of sledding in Quebec and the last thing I want is to be on the wrong end of a pen with the Quebec police....

 

Various non-responses & then the thread was locked.

 

A PQ resident then started another thread w/ his viewpoint:

 

Quote

I read through that topic and thought I would add my comments (but the thread is closed - hope this is ok). I have only been sledding for about 2 months but have had my share of experiences in Quebec already (I live in Montreal  -10 minutes from a trail club - Ile Bizard).

 

I have been stopped by club trail wardens on 4 occasions already - what I find that some of these guys have in common is a sense of somewhat misplaced authority - maybe they were refused at the police academy and are making up for it. Especially the younger guys (sub 30). I was recently told that the placement of my trail pass was "illegal" - it's right above where my knee is and apparently not legally placed as it is not visible all the time. This guy told me he could fine me 500$, and made like he was going to, took out his pen etc (pretty sure he did not have the authority to do this) then his partner came over, a much older, calmer guy, who told me all was good and to have a safe ride. The first guy was a bit aggressive and made me uncomfortable, I was very nice and calm with him too.

 

WRT to the SQ officers on the trails, I have encountered them 3 times also, they have always been extremely professional, talkative and helpful. In quebec, there is a bit of a riff between the english minority (which I am part of) and the french speaking population. Us english guys have been known to joke that if you are stopped by the SQ (all are french speaking), you are Screwed. Not the case from my experience, I have been stopped many times in my 50 years - in my car, boat and recently on my skidoo and these guys have always been top notch and very respectful. I do speak french, not perfectly and always engage with french speakers in their mother tongue, and have found that many SQ officers will switch to english when they address me. I don;t believe someone was fined for having Ontario style lettering on their sled, that would not stand up in court and the SQ officers on the trail would know better than to fine someone for that. Now if it were the Montreal Police - that would be a whole different story - I would believe anything you tell me about those jokers!

 

While I cannot comment extensively on the issue of snomo theft here in the province, I have heard that it is an issue in some places. I heard a story recently where a guy left his sled outside a pub in a small town, it was gone when he came out an hour later, middle of the afternoon. He hadn't removed the DESS though. This stuff will happen, it probably happens more here in Quebec because there is a LOT of sled tourism here but this is not a lawless society. Many hotels even have locked parking for snomos and the FCMQ website even lists those by region. Sleds are light and easy to steal, so people will take advantage of this, anywhere not just here.

 

I know a lot of you have ridden in Quebec & have never mentioned any issues. I would have to agree w/ the fellow in saying someone was overstepping his authority. Have any of you guys had to deal w/ the wardens/trail patrollers and/or the SQ while riding in Quebec? During our trip in '08 we met 2 chaps wearing blaze orange vests riding in the opposite direction w/o stopping up.

 

In my area there was a STOP officer that was retired OPP. He gave off a bad vibe & whenever I was @ a check, I paid no attention to him & only spoke to the OPP officers.

 

My belief in karma was reaffirmed when the STOP officer's past caught up to him & he ended up dying of cancer in prison.

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I ride with several guys with custom numbers, it's never been an issue at stops. 

Last year almost every ride had a stop. Often by club wardens.

So far this year, no stops, but I have not ridden in Quebec as much as last year, maybe 7 or 8 days. 

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I was stopped in Rivière Rouge a week or so ago. The officers were very nice to deal with. Nice bunch of guys. One did tell me that the custom numbers on my sled are no longer acceptable in Quebec and, yes, they want to see the ugly 4 by 6 sticker, blue numbers in white affixed to the tunnel.  They said they will be enforcing it next year and this year were  stopping riders to let them know. I think that IF this is proven to be correct I will mount the Ugly on something,  affix it to the tunnel for my trip and remove it when I get home.  No big whoop.  

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An highly aggressive QPP officer told me the same thing when stopped late last season. Made me feel like I was riding in a foreign country vs different province in Canada. First and only time I've had an issue in Quebec, yes been stopped before.

Edited by ZR SLEDHEAD
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we were stopped at a gas station in PQ last year, when a police officer came over and enquired about our custom numbers.

His question was if those numbers are legal in ON. We of course said yes, he shrugged and walked away.

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I was stopped by the QPP on Sunday outside of Mont Laurier.    The cops were decents guys and never mentioned the custom numbers at all.    They were more confused why I had a full season quebec permit on my sled when I was from Ontario. 

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We were stopped just south of  Angliers this season by trail wardens and the QPP.  We did not have a issue. When i do have a issue with custom numbers, i will be done with Quebec.  Enough is enough..l am licensed,  insured, val taged, Ontario and Quebec  trail passes. Enough already. Spend my hard earned tax dollars and stop the free loaders, and guys that drink on sleds, which there were plenty of when we were there. 

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12 hours ago, SlowTouringGuy said:

I was stopped in Rivière Rouge a week or so ago. The officers were very nice to deal with. Nice bunch of guys. One did tell me that the custom numbers on my sled are no longer acceptable in Quebec and, yes, they want to see the ugly 4 by 6 sticker, blue numbers in white affixed to the tunnel.  They said they will be enforcing it next year and this year were  stopping riders to let them know. I think that IF this is proven to be correct I will mount the Ugly on something,  affix it to the tunnel for my trip and remove it when I get home.  No big whoop.  

Okay, but what about those of us that tossed those Ugly's in the trash and went with the perfectly legal custom numbers? BTW, the Ugly numbers must be legally mounted on the cowling, not the tunnel according to the directions.

23. (1) The registration number of the motorized snow vehicle shall be,

(a) affixed to both sides of the cowling on decals provided by the Ministry; or

(b ) painted on, or affixed to, both sides of the cowling as prescribed in subsection (4). O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

(2) Decals with a registration number displayed in accordance with clause (1) (a) shall be not less than 10 centimetres and not more than 15 centimetres from the rear of the cowling. O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

(3) Despite subsection (2), if the design of the motorized snow vehicle makes it impracticable to affix the decals in accordance with that subsection, the decals may be affixed to each side of the tunnel of the vehicle next to or as near as possible to the forward edge of the reflector light. O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

(4) A registration number displayed in accordance with clause (1) (b ) shall,

(a) be painted on, or affixed to, both sides of the cowling with the rear limit of the number being not less than 10 centimetres and not more than 15 centimetres from the rear of the cowling;

(b ) be in a colour that contrasts with its background;

© be not less than five centimetres and not more than 7.6 centimetres high;

(d) have a stroke width of not less than five millimetres and not more than 13 millimetres;

(e) have digits of uniform style and height; and

(f) where practicable, have the digits separated by spaces that are not more than five centimetres wide. O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

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Sounds like it isnt isolated. Maybe the FCMQ should be notified?

 

On the tunnel placement in Ontario, since when has this been prohibited? I'm pretty sure that the MTO nstructions @ 1 time did show it. Yes I know saddle bags and/or snow would cover the numbers.

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50 minutes ago, revrnd said:

Sounds like it isnt isolated. Maybe the FCMQ should be notified?

 

On the tunnel placement in Ontario, since when has this been prohibited? I'm pretty sure that the MTO nstructions @ 1 time did show it. Yes I know saddle bags and/or snow would cover the numbers.

Picture from the rear of a sled "plate" from a 2012 sled. Last two points and picture indicate approved location.

 

 

plate.jpg

Edited by PISTON LAKE CRUISER
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1 hour ago, RAMSOMAIR said:

Okay, but what about those of us that tossed those Ugly's in the trash and went with the perfectly legal custom numbers? BTW, the Ugly numbers must be legally mounted on the cowling, not the tunnel according to the directions.

23. (1) The registration number of the motorized snow vehicle shall be,

(a) affixed to both sides of the cowling on decals provided by the Ministry; or

(b ) painted on, or affixed to, both sides of the cowling as prescribed in subsection (4). O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

(2) Decals with a registration number displayed in accordance with clause (1) (a) shall be not less than 10 centimetres and not more than 15 centimetres from the rear of the cowling. O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

(3) Despite subsection (2), if the design of the motorized snow vehicle makes it impracticable to affix the decals in accordance with that subsection, the decals may be affixed to each side of the tunnel of the vehicle next to or as near as possible to the forward edge of the reflector light. O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

(4) A registration number displayed in accordance with clause (1) (b ) shall,

(a) be painted on, or affixed to, both sides of the cowling with the rear limit of the number being not less than 10 centimetres and not more than 15 centimetres from the rear of the cowling;

(b ) be in a colour that contrasts with its background;

© be not less than five centimetres and not more than 7.6 centimetres high;

(d) have a stroke width of not less than five millimetres and not more than 13 millimetres;

(e) have digits of uniform style and height; and

(f) where practicable, have the digits separated by spaces that are not more than five centimetres wide. O. Reg. 145/97, s. 1.

But in Quebec they are mounted on the tunnel.  

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1 hour ago, revrnd said:

Sounds like it isnt isolated. Maybe the FCMQ should be notified?

 

On the tunnel placement in Ontario, since when has this been prohibited? I'm pretty sure that the MTO nstructions @ 1 time did show it. Yes I know saddle bags and/or snow would cover the numbers.

5

They have been. Here's a post from Jan. this year with a response from FCMQ:

 

So earlier today, I sent an email to the FCMQ regarding the cops going after the custom reg. #'s. Here is what I sent and the reply I got:

Envoyé : 21 janvier 2019 09:19
À : Info fcmq
Objet : Harassment by police on Free Weekend

 

Why were Quebec police harassing and writing tickets to Ontario snowmobiler's with custom registration #'s on the sides of their snowmobiles this past Free Weekend? Custom registration #'s are fully legal in Ontario. This was happening in the Abitibi region and near Mount Laurier.

This practice will hurt snowmobile tourism in your province.

 

 

Hello Brian,

 

First let me begin by thinking you for coming to Quebec to ride our trails and take part in our Open House Event.  We regret the treatment you received at the hands of some Sûreté du Québec officers.  You are absolutely correct that personalized registration numbers are legal in Ontario and therefore legal in Quebec as well.  Please know that this information had been transmitted to the SQ in the past.  Further to your message, we have transmitted the information to the SQ once again, more specifically to the person responsible for OHVs, with a note to ensure that this information gets relayed to all officers, precisely to prevent this type of event from re-occurring.

 

Respectfully yours,    

 

Michel Brault  I  Conseiller sénior - Support technique
101-1027 boul. des Entreprises   I  Terrebonne, Québec J6Y 1V2  I

revrnd

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45 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Picture from the rear of a sled "plate" from a 2012 sled. Last two points and picture indicate approved location.

 

I'll even go further back:

DSCF1668.thumb.JPG.b7e14322a2f6fff721603c08cd321f10.JPG

 

From '97 when I bought my '98. Even states that the permit isn't to be placed below the seat. That notation was missing in '06 (don't ask LOL). I'm wondering if the tunnel placement wasn't officially sanctioned, but an 'alternative' if there wasn't a large enough space on the hood. I know the pebbled surface of a bellypan was a surefire way to have them peel off. I know the graphics shops have mat'l that will adhere to 'rough' surfaces.

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40 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

They have been. Here's a post from Jan. this year with a response from FCMQ:

 

So earlier today, I sent an email to the FCMQ regarding the cops going after the custom reg. #'s. Here is what I sent and the reply I got:

Envoyé : 21 janvier 2019 09:19
À : Info fcmq
Objet : Harassment by police on Free Weekend

 

Why were Quebec police harassing and writing tickets to Ontario snowmobiler's with custom registration #'s on the sides of their snowmobiles this past Free Weekend? Custom registration #'s are fully legal in Ontario. This was happening in the Abitibi region and near Mount Laurier.

This practice will hurt snowmobile tourism in your province.

 

 

Hello Brian,

 

First let me begin by thinking you for coming to Quebec to ride our trails and take part in our Open House Event.  We regret the treatment you received at the hands of some Sûreté du Québec officers.  You are absolutely correct that personalized registration numbers are legal in Ontario and therefore legal in Quebec as well.  Please know that this information had been transmitted to the SQ in the past.  Further to your message, we have transmitted the information to the SQ once again, more specifically to the person responsible for OHVs, with a note to ensure that this information gets relayed to all officers, precisely to prevent this type of event from re-occurring.

 

Respectfully yours,    

 

Michel Brault  I  Conseiller sénior - Support technique
101-1027 boul. des Entreprises   I  Terrebonne, Québec J6Y 1V2  I

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revrnd

THANK YOU !

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42 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

I'll even go further back:

DSCF1668.thumb.JPG.b7e14322a2f6fff721603c08cd321f10.JPG

 

From '97 when I bought my '98. Even states that the permit isn't to be placed below the seat. That notation was missing in '06 (don't ask LOL). I'm wondering if the tunnel placement wasn't officially sanctioned, but an 'alternative' if there wasn't a large enough space on the hood. I know the pebbled surface of a bellypan was a surefire way to have them peel off. I know the graphics shops have mat'l that will adhere to 'rough' surfaces.

LOL the picture of the sled never changed. Looks like a John Deere!

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34 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

LOL the picture of the sled never changed. Looks like a John Deere!

 

I was thinking the same thing! Trailfire or a Sportfire LOL

 

100_0528.jpg

 

We're dating ourselves.

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48 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

I'll even go further back:

DSCF1668.thumb.JPG.b7e14322a2f6fff721603c08cd321f10.JPG

 

From '97 when I bought my '98. Even states that the permit isn't to be placed below the seat. That notation was missing in '06 (don't ask LOL). I'm wondering if the tunnel placement wasn't officially sanctioned, but an 'alternative' if there wasn't a large enough space on the hood. I know the pebbled surface of a bellypan was a surefire way to have them peel off. I know the graphics shops have mat'l that will adhere to 'rough' surfaces.

The instructions for placing the sticker are secondary to the legislation. Ransomair posted the excerpt from the actual written law, which trumps these instructions, which are merely a guide.   Subsection 3 clearly states that the tunnel is an acceptable alternative, if the snowmobile’s design makes it impractical to place it in the prescribed location.  The instructions only mention the prescribed method to avoid confusion.  Otherwise, lots of people would likely place them there, which MTO and OPP don’t want.  The trick is, many enforcement folks don’t read the actual legislation until afterwards if it’s an unusual situation, and defining what’s an “impractical” design is up to anyone’s interpretation.  

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33 minutes ago, Bucking Pig said:

The instructions for placing the sticker are secondary to the legislation. Ransomair posted the excerpt from the actual written law, which trumps these instructions, which are merely a guide.   Subsection 3 clearly states that the tunnel is an acceptable alternative, if the snowmobile’s design makes it impractical to place it in the prescribed location.  The instructions only mention the prescribed method to avoid confusion.  Otherwise, lots of people would likely place them there, which MTO and OPP don’t want.  The trick is, many enforcement folks don’t read the actual legislation until afterwards if it’s an unusual situation, and defining what’s an “impractical” design is up to anyone’s interpretation.  

 

My eyes glazed over LOL. I've bolded the quote Ransomair posted.

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39 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

My eyes glazed over LOL. I've bolded the quote Ransomair posted.

On the bold... Trying to read legislation will do that.   :wacko:

Edited by Bucking Pig
Correction
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12 hours ago, SlowTouringGuy said:

I was stopped in Rivière Rouge a week or so ago. The officers were very nice to deal with. Nice bunch of guys. One did tell me that the custom numbers on my sled are no longer acceptable in Quebec and, yes, they want to see the ugly 4 by 6 sticker, blue numbers in white affixed to the tunnel.  They said they will be enforcing it next year and this year were  stopping riders to let them know. I think that IF this is proven to be correct I will mount the Ugly on something,  affix it to the tunnel for my trip and remove it when I get home.  No big whoop.  

I had to wait for my custom numbers for my Apex. I cut a sheet of clear vinyl; the one with a peel off backing. I cut it 1/4" larger then the MTO license. Stuck the vinyl to my tunnel then MTO license to it. It stayed on perfectly and peeled off when my numbers came in easily. 

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So it sounds like this is all a mute point.

Print out Michel Brault's reply and keep with you in your insurance/reg folder in your pocket and when the Que officer gives you a hard time, whip it out and EAD!

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42 minutes ago, RAMSOMAIR said:

So it sounds like this is all a mute point.

Print out Michel Brault's reply and keep with you in your insurance/reg folder in your pocket and when the Que officer gives you a hard time, whip it out and EAD!

you may want that printed on quebec govt letterhead to give more reference and teeth to a field officer. your results may vary. Ski

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