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I'd get behind any plan that involved actually checking permits. 

Haven't been asked in 2+ years. 

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i am of the thought of permitting the rider, not the sled. i know i may be in the minority but, for those that own multiple sleds, it would be a good option. like hunting or fishing licenses, gives us the choice for which, rod, reel, gun we would like to utilize. it gets cost prohibitive for sure, having 5 sleds. and before everyone says, "if you can afford 5 sleds, you can afford 5 permits". only 2 sleds are newer. we have 2 2018's, 2 2009's, and 1 1997. permitting them all, would cost close to 1000.00 cnd. 

 

Ski

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36 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

i am of the thought of permitting the rider, not the sled. i know i may be in the minority but, for those that own multiple sleds, it would be a good option. like hunting or fishing licenses, gives us the choice for which, rod, reel, gun we would like to utilize. it gets cost prohibitive for sure, having 5 sleds. and before everyone says, "if you can afford 5 sleds, you can afford 5 permits". only 2 sleds are newer. we have 2 2018's, 2 2009's, and 1 1997. permitting them all, would cost close to 1000.00 cnd. 

 

Ski

I'm in the opposite situation. I have 2 sleds but 4 drivers. It would end up costing us twice as much. Enforcement would likely be an even more tedious process if permitting the driver was used. 

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why would enforcement be more tedious? the give the mnr rights to check sledders, they have NO ISSUES checking sportspeople (hunters, trappers, fisherman). EVERYONE would get stopped, and checked. EVERYONE, NOT JUST THOSE THEY CANT SEE THE PERMITS, RIGHT AWAY. Ski

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42 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

why would enforcement be more tedious? the give the mnr rights to check sledders, they have NO ISSUES checking sportspeople (hunters, trappers, fisherman). EVERYONE would get stopped, and checked. EVERYONE, NOT JUST THOSE THEY CANT SEE THE PERMITS, RIGHT AWAY. Ski

Tedious for the riders and enforcement. We have little to no enforcement now from the OPP and the number of patrolling MNR officers in many areas of Ontario is minimal to say the least. Not too likely that we will see more provincial government resources added for trail permit enforcement even though that is needed. Pass through trail checks where the sleds with visible permits get waved through would not happen. If there were checks there would be lineups in many high traffic areas due to the time required for riders being checked getting their permits out to show officers and then put away again after checking. 

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Careful what you ask for. The 407 is considered private property and the 407 pays the OPP for enforcement. If the province says the trail system is mainly private property the cost of enforcement would definitely increase your trail pass cost. Dougie is not increasing service, he is reducing it. 

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2 hours ago, skidooboy said:

i am of the thought of permitting the rider, not the sled. i know i may be in the minority but, for those that own multiple sleds, it would be a good option. like hunting or fishing licenses, gives us the choice for which, rod, reel, gun we would like to utilize. it gets cost prohibitive for sure, having 5 sleds. and before everyone says, "if you can afford 5 sleds, you can afford 5 permits". only 2 sleds are newer. we have 2 2018's, 2 2009's, and 1 1997. permitting them all, would cost close to 1000.00 cnd. 

 

Ski

And how do you know if the rider has a permit or not? Do you stop everyone and ask them to pull it out of their pocket.? Should the person who owns multiple cars or pickups only buy one plate?

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33 minutes ago, Xfirecat said:

Careful what you ask for. The 407 is considered private property and the 407 pays the OPP for enforcement. If the province says the trail system is mainly private property the cost of enforcement would definitely increase your trail pass cost. Dougie is not increasing service, he is reducing it. 

It's about $75 / hr. for a paid duty OPP. I bet if the OFSC started paying for permit enforcement by the OPP they would quickly recover the expense. Word would get around quickly and non compliance wouldn't be a problem.

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1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Tedious for the riders and enforcement. We have little to no enforcement now from the OPP and the number of patrolling MNR officers in many areas of Ontario is minimal to say the least. Not too likely that we will see more provincial government resources added for trail permit enforcement even though that is needed. Pass through trail checks where the sleds with visible permits get waved through would not happen. If there were checks there would be lineups in many high traffic areas due to the time required for riders being checked getting their permits out to show officers and then put away again after checking. 

Totally agree.  The mnr already has their hands full monitoring ice fisherman and hunters in the winter.  Last thing they need is to be stopping every sledder they see.

 

I cant imagine being on a busy trail in muskoka or surrounding area on a Saturday afternoon and them asking every sledder for a registered riders permit.  The line up would be ridiclious.  Where now the glance at your permit and registration sticker and off you go.  Unless there slow and they ask you for your licence.

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8 hours ago, 02Sled said:

And how do you know if the rider has a permit or not? Do you stop everyone and ask them to pull it out of their pocket.? Should the person who owns multiple cars or pickups only buy one plate?

02 you're a computer guy for fs - you wear your permit as one of those chips....drive through a check stop, if beeping starts, pull the driver over. One bad thing might be RF interference with your sled start key, but I am no expert at that.

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I firmly believe that if we have to license, (Govt/MTO) insure, (govt enforced, TAXED and legislated) and have an MTO issued pass, we are entitled to law and compliance enforcement just the same as any other regulated motor vehicle. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, slomo said:

02 you're a computer guy for fs - you wear your permit as one of those chips....drive through a check stop, if beeping starts, pull the driver over. One bad thing might be RF interference with your sled start key, but I am no expert at that.

LOL   Can I get a 10 year permit implanted in the middle finger of my left hand so I can just wave when going past??

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Put the permit on your helmet instead of your windshield.  Problem solved.

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10 hours ago, Big Pussy said:

Put the permit on your helmet instead of your windshield.  Problem solved.

The long and short of this discussion is that the MTO controls what is done permit wise. Their systems are set up on permitting the vehicle whatever type it may be. I don't believe they would agree on a different system for one type of vehicle while maintaining their validation sticker system. 

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On 4/7/2019 at 10:03 PM, manotickmike said:

I'd get behind any plan that involved actually checking permits. 

Haven't been asked in 2+ years. 

 

Over 3000 miles of riding and never stopped once this year.

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52 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

Over 3000 miles of riding and never stopped once this year.

same for us, in Quebec or in Ontario

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2 hours ago, Nunz said:

same for us, in Quebec or in Ontario

X2

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Voluntary compliance? 

Honour system?

No government investment?

Sounds sustainable.

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Stopped once by OPP in a truck at a road.

First time in God knows when

 

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2 hours ago, soupkids said:

Stopped once by OPP in a truck at a road.

First time in God knows when

 

My last stop was near the end of last season (down here). Probably the middle of Feb'.

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Stopped in Quebec once in 11 days of riding. Digital photos taken of insurance, license and registration. Paper copy of our permits had to be presented.

Digital photos get downloaded back at station. If there's a problem you'll get a ticket in the mail. 

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On 4/7/2019 at 11:47 AM, Poo Man said:

You can't be serious? The permit is one of the cheapest parts of sledding, and you want to pay less because of where you live you can't sled from home? 

Permit cost means nothing to me.

 

Rig fuel

Trailer repairs

Time off from work to travel

Meals away from home

Accommodations away from home

 

It all adds up to thousands. That matters to me.

 

So yeah, if the ofsc recognized that us Southerners gotta fork out thousands of dollars just to reach the trail than yeah, I'm on for that. 

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On 4/8/2019 at 9:48 AM, 02Sled said:

And how do you know if the rider has a permit or not? Do you stop everyone and ask them to pull it out of their pocket.? Should the person who owns multiple cars or pickups only buy one plate?

Simple, arm band with picture on it, just like a ski pass. Trail pass is not a plate or registration, your comparison is invalid. 

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On 4/12/2019 at 9:11 AM, soupkids said:

Stopped once by OPP in a truck at a road.

First time in God knows when

 

Weekday riding in suds you never see them, weekends much more but still scarce. I have been stopped more in the three winters living in the south than i was the entire time I lived up there. I really do miss those awesome remote trails, the south pretty much sucks for riding but it is better than nothing. Already lobbying to move to the north again.

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On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:30 PM, slomo said:

02 you're a computer guy for fs - you wear your permit as one of those chips....drive through a check stop, if beeping starts, pull the driver over. One bad thing might be RF interference with your sled start key, but I am no expert at that.

Really... so now those doing enforcement all need to be equipped with RF scanners which for the most part need to be in very close proximity. Then what do you do when the rider can pass his uniquely chipped permit from one rider to another. Tell you what I'll ride the odd days of the month then give you my card for the even days of the month. Just not practical. Mind you there is a company in Switzerland that is micro-chipping their employees under the skin just like pets rather than using access cards for secure access areas.

 

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:48 PM, manotickmike said:

Voluntary compliance? 

Honour system?

No government investment?

Sounds sustainable.

In a time when people feel entitled to ride wherever and whenever they want on private property you really think an honour system would work.... okay.... I have some swamp land in Florida for you.

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