manotickmike Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I'd get behind any plan that involved actually checking permits. Haven't been asked in 2+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 i am of the thought of permitting the rider, not the sled. i know i may be in the minority but, for those that own multiple sleds, it would be a good option. like hunting or fishing licenses, gives us the choice for which, rod, reel, gun we would like to utilize. it gets cost prohibitive for sure, having 5 sleds. and before everyone says, "if you can afford 5 sleds, you can afford 5 permits". only 2 sleds are newer. we have 2 2018's, 2 2009's, and 1 1997. permitting them all, would cost close to 1000.00 cnd. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, skidooboy said: i am of the thought of permitting the rider, not the sled. i know i may be in the minority but, for those that own multiple sleds, it would be a good option. like hunting or fishing licenses, gives us the choice for which, rod, reel, gun we would like to utilize. it gets cost prohibitive for sure, having 5 sleds. and before everyone says, "if you can afford 5 sleds, you can afford 5 permits". only 2 sleds are newer. we have 2 2018's, 2 2009's, and 1 1997. permitting them all, would cost close to 1000.00 cnd. Ski I'm in the opposite situation. I have 2 sleds but 4 drivers. It would end up costing us twice as much. Enforcement would likely be an even more tedious process if permitting the driver was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 why would enforcement be more tedious? the give the mnr rights to check sledders, they have NO ISSUES checking sportspeople (hunters, trappers, fisherman). EVERYONE would get stopped, and checked. EVERYONE, NOT JUST THOSE THEY CANT SEE THE PERMITS, RIGHT AWAY. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 42 minutes ago, skidooboy said: why would enforcement be more tedious? the give the mnr rights to check sledders, they have NO ISSUES checking sportspeople (hunters, trappers, fisherman). EVERYONE would get stopped, and checked. EVERYONE, NOT JUST THOSE THEY CANT SEE THE PERMITS, RIGHT AWAY. Ski Tedious for the riders and enforcement. We have little to no enforcement now from the OPP and the number of patrolling MNR officers in many areas of Ontario is minimal to say the least. Not too likely that we will see more provincial government resources added for trail permit enforcement even though that is needed. Pass through trail checks where the sleds with visible permits get waved through would not happen. If there were checks there would be lineups in many high traffic areas due to the time required for riders being checked getting their permits out to show officers and then put away again after checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfirecat Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Careful what you ask for. The 407 is considered private property and the 407 pays the OPP for enforcement. If the province says the trail system is mainly private property the cost of enforcement would definitely increase your trail pass cost. Dougie is not increasing service, he is reducing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 hours ago, skidooboy said: i am of the thought of permitting the rider, not the sled. i know i may be in the minority but, for those that own multiple sleds, it would be a good option. like hunting or fishing licenses, gives us the choice for which, rod, reel, gun we would like to utilize. it gets cost prohibitive for sure, having 5 sleds. and before everyone says, "if you can afford 5 sleds, you can afford 5 permits". only 2 sleds are newer. we have 2 2018's, 2 2009's, and 1 1997. permitting them all, would cost close to 1000.00 cnd. Ski And how do you know if the rider has a permit or not? Do you stop everyone and ask them to pull it out of their pocket.? Should the person who owns multiple cars or pickups only buy one plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 33 minutes ago, Xfirecat said: Careful what you ask for. The 407 is considered private property and the 407 pays the OPP for enforcement. If the province says the trail system is mainly private property the cost of enforcement would definitely increase your trail pass cost. Dougie is not increasing service, he is reducing it. It's about $75 / hr. for a paid duty OPP. I bet if the OFSC started paying for permit enforcement by the OPP they would quickly recover the expense. Word would get around quickly and non compliance wouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Tedious for the riders and enforcement. We have little to no enforcement now from the OPP and the number of patrolling MNR officers in many areas of Ontario is minimal to say the least. Not too likely that we will see more provincial government resources added for trail permit enforcement even though that is needed. Pass through trail checks where the sleds with visible permits get waved through would not happen. If there were checks there would be lineups in many high traffic areas due to the time required for riders being checked getting their permits out to show officers and then put away again after checking. Totally agree. The mnr already has their hands full monitoring ice fisherman and hunters in the winter. Last thing they need is to be stopping every sledder they see. I cant imagine being on a busy trail in muskoka or surrounding area on a Saturday afternoon and them asking every sledder for a registered riders permit. The line up would be ridiclious. Where now the glance at your permit and registration sticker and off you go. Unless there slow and they ask you for your licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 8 hours ago, 02Sled said: And how do you know if the rider has a permit or not? Do you stop everyone and ask them to pull it out of their pocket.? Should the person who owns multiple cars or pickups only buy one plate? 02 you're a computer guy for fs - you wear your permit as one of those chips....drive through a check stop, if beeping starts, pull the driver over. One bad thing might be RF interference with your sled start key, but I am no expert at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manotickmike Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I firmly believe that if we have to license, (Govt/MTO) insure, (govt enforced, TAXED and legislated) and have an MTO issued pass, we are entitled to law and compliance enforcement just the same as any other regulated motor vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 hour ago, slomo said: 02 you're a computer guy for fs - you wear your permit as one of those chips....drive through a check stop, if beeping starts, pull the driver over. One bad thing might be RF interference with your sled start key, but I am no expert at that. LOL Can I get a 10 year permit implanted in the middle finger of my left hand so I can just wave when going past?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Put the permit on your helmet instead of your windshield. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Big Pussy said: Put the permit on your helmet instead of your windshield. Problem solved. The long and short of this discussion is that the MTO controls what is done permit wise. Their systems are set up on permitting the vehicle whatever type it may be. I don't believe they would agree on a different system for one type of vehicle while maintaining their validation sticker system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 4/7/2019 at 10:03 PM, manotickmike said: I'd get behind any plan that involved actually checking permits. Haven't been asked in 2+ years. Over 3000 miles of riding and never stopped once this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunz Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, revrnd said: Over 3000 miles of riding and never stopped once this year. same for us, in Quebec or in Ontario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Nunz said: same for us, in Quebec or in Ontario X2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manotickmike Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Voluntary compliance? Honour system? No government investment? Sounds sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Stopped once by OPP in a truck at a road. First time in God knows when Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 2 hours ago, soupkids said: Stopped once by OPP in a truck at a road. First time in God knows when My last stop was near the end of last season (down here). Probably the middle of Feb'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcZEd382 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Stopped in Quebec once in 11 days of riding. Digital photos taken of insurance, license and registration. Paper copy of our permits had to be presented. Digital photos get downloaded back at station. If there's a problem you'll get a ticket in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcZEd382 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 On 4/7/2019 at 11:47 AM, Poo Man said: You can't be serious? The permit is one of the cheapest parts of sledding, and you want to pay less because of where you live you can't sled from home? Permit cost means nothing to me. Rig fuel Trailer repairs Time off from work to travel Meals away from home Accommodations away from home It all adds up to thousands. That matters to me. So yeah, if the ofsc recognized that us Southerners gotta fork out thousands of dollars just to reach the trail than yeah, I'm on for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 On 4/8/2019 at 9:48 AM, 02Sled said: And how do you know if the rider has a permit or not? Do you stop everyone and ask them to pull it out of their pocket.? Should the person who owns multiple cars or pickups only buy one plate? Simple, arm band with picture on it, just like a ski pass. Trail pass is not a plate or registration, your comparison is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 9:11 AM, soupkids said: Stopped once by OPP in a truck at a road. First time in God knows when Weekday riding in suds you never see them, weekends much more but still scarce. I have been stopped more in the three winters living in the south than i was the entire time I lived up there. I really do miss those awesome remote trails, the south pretty much sucks for riding but it is better than nothing. Already lobbying to move to the north again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 On 4/8/2019 at 5:30 PM, slomo said: 02 you're a computer guy for fs - you wear your permit as one of those chips....drive through a check stop, if beeping starts, pull the driver over. One bad thing might be RF interference with your sled start key, but I am no expert at that. Really... so now those doing enforcement all need to be equipped with RF scanners which for the most part need to be in very close proximity. Then what do you do when the rider can pass his uniquely chipped permit from one rider to another. Tell you what I'll ride the odd days of the month then give you my card for the even days of the month. Just not practical. Mind you there is a company in Switzerland that is micro-chipping their employees under the skin just like pets rather than using access cards for secure access areas. On 4/11/2019 at 3:48 PM, manotickmike said: Voluntary compliance? Honour system? No government investment? Sounds sustainable. In a time when people feel entitled to ride wherever and whenever they want on private property you really think an honour system would work.... okay.... I have some swamp land in Florida for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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