andreyboater Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 That's great idea to invite new people to sport, but I'm personally prefer to avoid riding those days, too many unexperienced people on trails specially South district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTheSnowman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 The mild weather is going to destroy any trails that have recently opened in D9/5 the same as last year. The clubs will keep them open anyhow for the freeloading to begin and then closed the rest of the season because they will not be able to come back from 4 days of plus temps up to 8 degrees and rain. I call bs and close the trails so the ones who pay can ride next week and hopefully the week after. I’m glad I do not purchase my permit from the south anymore. Not a happy sledder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Welfare weekend lets me get my 70 Alpine out on the trails, weather permitting. Remember there's nothing resembling warmers on that beast. -15 is the absolute limit I can ride it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 55 minutes ago, FrostyTheSnowman said: The mild weather is going to destroy any trails that have recently opened in D9/5 the same as last year. The clubs will keep them open anyhow for the freeloading to begin and then closed the rest of the season because they will not be able to come back from 4 days of plus temps up to 8 degrees and rain. I call bs and close the trails so the ones who pay can ride next week and hopefully the week after. I’m glad I do not purchase my permit from the south anymore. Not a happy sledder I would be willing to bet that the majority of the trail are open in D5 don't have enough base to last through the predicted weather on Sunday and Monday even if no one rode them this weekend. Better get out and ride 5 if you can. Then ride the trailer further north next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Maybe it's just me, but I would have a hard time justifying having any sled sitting around with license and insurance paid up and not have a pass on it. Seen quite a few older sleds out this week without a visible permit. Stopped one young lad and he had no pass, no license sticker and the brain bucket strap just hanging there. Seems like they're getting the pre-free weekend shakedown in so that they're good to go. This idea has been around long enough IMO, glad they changed it to a shorter weekend at least, but I think it can stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I hear and understand all the negativity about the free weekend. Hey, I am a permit buyer and volunteer too. But what I have not seen or heard are any realistic ideas that will help attract and grow the buying permit base. Without new permit buyers coming in we are doomed to a slow painful death.. so so instead of the negativity, how about some ideas that could be presented as growth alternatives for our sport. Maybe somebody would take a moment to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTheSnowman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Denis007 said: Welfare weekend lets me get my 70 Alpine out on the trails, weather permitting. Remember there's nothing resembling warmers on that beast. -15 is the absolute limit I can ride it in. I get your point on your old alpine but in your area the trails won’t close until the tulips are peaking out of the ground. If it were a conditions pending for the free weekend to be able to have access to the trails would be a good idea. Especially in the south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTheSnowman Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I hear and understand all the negativity about the free weekend. Hey, I am a permit buyer and volunteer too. But what I have not seen or heard are any realistic ideas that will help attract and grow the buying permit base. Without new permit buyers coming in we are doomed to a slow painful death.. so so instead of the negativity, how about some ideas that could be presented as growth alternatives for our sport. Maybe somebody would take a moment to listen. I find it hard to believe that anyone will buy a new or newer sled at the manufactures price points just because of 48hrs of free riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 minute ago, FrostyTheSnowman said: I find it hard to believe that anyone will buy a new or newer sled at the manufactures price points just because of 48hrs of free riding. FTS, I agree 100%. But I see that more as an enforcement issue rather than a growth idea. So the question stands, “How do we get more paying riders into our sport? How do we reach the OFSC goal of 120,000 paid permits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 youth. Its universally the answer to every problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 31 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I hear and understand all the negativity about the free weekend. Hey, I am a permit buyer and volunteer too. But what I have not seen or heard are any realistic ideas that will help attract and grow the buying permit base. Without new permit buyers coming in we are doomed to a slow painful death.. so so instead of the negativity, how about some ideas that could be presented as growth alternatives for our sport. Maybe somebody would take a moment to listen. 1st thing you need is snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, UsedtoSkidoo said: youth. Its universally the answer to every problem. 2nd thing you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 There just isn't a silver bullet. It's a large investment to get into the sport. Perhaps you have a strong sense that you will like but aren't really sure since you have only seen TV shows, magazines and others ride by. Sled rentals to try it out aren't out of this world expensive but they aren't cheap either. The rates are just representative of the costs the renter is burdened with. There seems to be an increasing propensity for youth to be totally urbanized and definitely not interested in something where they are not totally connected at all times with their phones. National parks have seen a significant decline in attendance, particularly among the younger generation. They are or are looking at putting wifi into some National Park settings in an effort to draw them in. Young families have limits on economics and time. I know of one family where the husband and wife have a shared online calendar so they can keep track of who is taking the kids where and when. They even have to schedule time for them to see each other. The world has changed and will continue to. Perhaps an alternative to owning a sled would be something like a part ownership/membership like they have in some places for boats. Another side of the equation is getting people to buy the permit. That's not a problem with people here. But as more people ride without a permit, don't get stopped, don't get penalized more people see that and wonder why am I stupid enough to pay for one. Just a result of the elimination of STOP and the watering down of Trail Patrol to Walmart greeter. I spoke to an OFSC woman at the sled show. I think we all know who it would have been and all she kept preaching was that they (actually she) wants ambassadors and nothing more out of trail patrol. I told her I can't count the number of people I have provided maps to and given directions. I have stopped my ride and left friends to tow people back who have run out of gas or broken down. I have led people to gas going off my planned route, boosted dead batteries and more. It seems that is all she wants trail patrol to do. Apart from attracting riders... how about attracting volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka Man Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Don't think we will ride around the Muskokas this weekend .to much traffic for this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Muskoka Man said: Don't think we will ride around the Muskokas this weekend .to much traffic for this guy Yep, the inmates will be running the prison!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Muskoka Man said: Don't think we will ride around the Muskokas this weekend .to much traffic for this guy 2 hours ago, RAMSOMAIR said: Yep, the inmates will be running the prison!! going to stay local. Son wants to try out his long track in the powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIVERMAN Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I think the free weekend permit is a all season thing, never seen so many sled WITH OUT permits this year. Cops only check for licence and ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 5 hours ago, Big Pete said: I hear and understand all the negativity about the free weekend. Hey, I am a permit buyer and volunteer too. But what I have not seen or heard are any realistic ideas that will help attract and grow the buying permit base. Without new permit buyers coming in we are doomed to a slow painful death.. so so instead of the negativity, how about some ideas that could be presented as growth alternatives for our sport. Maybe somebody would take a moment to listen. I for one can say from personal experience that DEALERSHIPS HAVE STOPPED PUSHING TRAIL ORIENTED SLEDS. There hasn't been an MXz in our shop in 3 or 4 years. A 137 is the minimum they'll order in. Everyone bitching and complaining that no-one's trail riding around my area. GET OFF YOUR ASS AND BUY A TRAIL SLED, then ride the crap out of it. Give it some exposure. Get out on rides with friends on the groomed trails, and quit frigging around the lakes and power lines. Brag about your awesome ride to Dub or Canyon or the big loop, make people see that you TRAIL RIDE and maybe people will see the value of having a trail sled and the joy that trail riding really is. If my own workplace can't make the effort to push trail sleds and riding, I'm sure as f$%# not going to do it for them. I'll ride my MXz 'til the cows come home. Don't talk to me about crossovers and riding swamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Big Pete said: I hear and understand all the negativity about the free weekend. Hey, I am a permit buyer and volunteer too. But what I have not seen or heard are any realistic ideas that will help attract and grow the buying permit base. Without new permit buyers coming in we are doomed to a slow painful death.. so so instead of the negativity, how about some ideas that could be presented as growth alternatives for our sport. Maybe somebody would take a moment to listen. 6 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said: 1st thing you need is snow. I have had at least 10 friends leave the sport over the last few years. Biggest reason, the season is too short in the south for what it costs to be in it. I called one of my buddies Wednesday to see if he wanted to ride yesterday. He has been in and out several times in the last 10 years. He currently has a sled but no insurance, permit or val tag. He said he's too busy with work and its not worth it to buy the permit and insurance unless the trails are going to open locally for at least a month. He's probably going to sell. I rode yesterday with a friend who sold his last sled 10 years ago. He'll drop everything to come ride with me when I offer. He always says that he loves it but its just not worth it any more. Much better to come ride my back up sled and buy me lunch.....lol And that's one of the reasons I keep a back up sled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 This crap continues also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, Blackstar said: I have had at least 10 friends leave the sport over the last few years. Biggest reason, the season is too short in the south for what it costs to be in it. I called one of my buddies Wednesday to see if he wanted to ride yesterday. He has been in and out several times in the last 10 years. He currently has a sled but no insurance, permit or val tag. He said he's too busy with work and its not worth it to buy the permit and insurance unless the trails are going to open locally for at least a month. He's probably going to sell. I rode yesterday with a friend who sold his last sled 10 years ago. He'll drop everything to come ride with me when I offer. He always says that he loves it but its just not worth it any more. Much better to come ride my back up sled and buy me lunch.....lol And that's one of the reasons I keep a back up sled. I will be very honest here. I love the sport, most like the rest of you guys. If it was not for our rides in the NCDN, and Quebec, i would definitely be out of the sport. I love riding from home when we can. And although our local trails are open, thanks to our club, i have no interest to go ride on cornstalks etc this weekend. Theres just not enough snow around here for my liking. With the money we have invested in the sport, if i lost my ability to head north, id be outta the sport. Plain and simple. And if all i could do was to rely on hopes of snow in the south id be out also. Trailering is the norm now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperG Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Big Pete said: FTS, I agree 100%. But I see that more as an enforcement issue rather than a growth idea. So the question stands, “How do we get more paying riders into our sport? How do we reach the OFSC goal of 120,000 paid permits? MORE ENFORCEMENT especially on permits! More oems have to start selling sleds at more attractive prices or offer a line of sleds that are reasonably priced like polaris indy etc. 9 hours ago, 02Sled said: There just isn't a silver bullet. It's a large investment to get into the sport. Perhaps you have a strong sense that you will like but aren't really sure since you have only seen TV shows, magazines and others ride by. Sled rentals to try it out aren't out of this world expensive but they aren't cheap either. The rates are just representative of the costs the renter is burdened with. There seems to be an increasing propensity for youth to be totally urbanized and definitely not interested in something where they are not totally connected at all times with their phones. National parks have seen a significant decline in attendance, particularly among the younger generation. They are or are looking at putting wifi into some National Park settings in an effort to draw them in. Young families have limits on economics and time. I know of one family where the husband and wife have a shared online calendar so they can keep track of who is taking the kids where and when. They even have to schedule time for them to see each other. The world has changed and will continue to. Perhaps an alternative to owning a sled would be something like a part ownership/membership like they have in some places for boats. Another side of the equation is getting people to buy the permit. That's not a problem with people here. But as more people ride without a permit, don't get stopped, don't get penalized more people see that and wonder why am I stupid enough to pay for one. Just a result of the elimination of STOP and the watering down of Trail Patrol to Walmart greeter. I spoke to an OFSC woman at the sled show. I think we all know who it would have been and all she kept preaching was that they (actually she) wants ambassadors and nothing more out of trail patrol. I told her I can't count the number of people I have provided maps to and given directions. I have stopped my ride and left friends to tow people back who have run out of gas or broken down. I have led people to gas going off my planned route, boosted dead batteries and more. It seems that is all she wants trail patrol to do. Apart from attracting riders... how about attracting volunteers. Yes FULLY agree. All she toots about is ambassador this and that and is silent on enforcement which is what trail patrol was set up for was yes to help people on the trail etc but to ENFORCE the user pay system! Yet she herself is NOT an active trail patroller nor has any experience doing so.So why is she in charge of the program yet has no experience nor listens to their actual members! STOP is gone and the opp are not supporting any enforcement for trail patrol unlike in quebec. nor do most of the opp care about the permits, just care about licence, val tag, insurance etc. What else was VERY sad an pathetic IMO was all during safe snowmobile week, ofsc wouldn't even mention trail patrol nor anything about trail patrollers are out patrolling keeping everyone on the trails informed, safe, and looking for permit compliance etc. Complete opposite from the quebec federation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Is the reluctance of the OFSC to do any similar to what the FCMQ does a case of 'not invented here'? A lot of you are familiar w/ sledding in PQ due to your regular visits. Would it be safe to say the 2 federations are 180* opposite in their mindset & the direction they're headed for? Also is the free weekend in PQ more of a way to expose out of province sledders to the system? Any idea if it is referred to welfare or freeloader weekend over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 How about the Ford Government shows some effort in bringing ina some legislative changes regarding increasing fines, empowering Trail Patrol and requiring the sled owner to be responsible for any fines rather than the BS we now face in having to identify the offending Operator. And most importantly limit liability to trail organizations and landowners. No cost initiatives just some overdue teeth to discourage Freeloaders and lawsuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Well from this volunteers position, here's what the free weekend has cost me. With the snowfall this week extra grooming was required, while being passed by sleds not displaying a pass. While doing said grooming, have a mechanical failure. Got lucky enough to only spend an hour getting back to the yard, but then the fun begins. Lose a day I had planned on actually riding to arrange getting local dealer to fix a 2 year old tractor, couldn't get any response. Before it failed I was cleaning up drifts in the fields for the BIG weekend, and had a decent sized ribbon towards the center of the trail and couldn't get back to clean it up, so this morning used my classic permitted sled and homemade drag to go and make it safe enough and it suffered a broken fan belt and bearings. Go pick it up with the truck and order parts. Parts won't be in till Tuesday so son is without his sled. Back to the tractor, got tired of waiting for dealer to return calls. Chipped off as much snow and ice as possible, put it in the shop and started the repairs myself. With any luck the parts department of this dealer will be able to satisfy me with having parts so I can spend tomorrow putting it back together. As far as getting youth involved, got lots of em riding around here, just none interested in the helping part. But of a rant maybe, but the freebie weekend just puts more stress on an already tired and small group of volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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