bbakernbay Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 This sticker must be affixed to designate it as a certified MSV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Wildbill said: Yes it does the one that I saw at the peterborough show did for sure I presume you are referring to the aforementioned Arctic Cat Sno Bike? Are they currently for sale? Any other certified MSV’s that you are aware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I saw a Snow Hawk on the trail today near Port Sydney. I almost yanked the dude off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtybeacher Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, RAMSOMAIR said: I saw a Snow Hawk on the trail today near Port Sydney. I almost yanked the dude off of it. Why would you do that? Snow hawks are trail legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, RAMSOMAIR said: I saw a Snow Hawk on the trail today near Port Sydney. I almost yanked the dude off of it. Why do you say that? No Trail Permit, damaging trail, ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtybeacher Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, scottyr said: I am not going to argue back and forth but it is NOT approved as an MSV. Cat couldnt figure out how to get the brake onto the left hand side of the bars and still have a manual clutch as per the MVSA regs. Arctic Cat couldnt even sell them in the USA due to liability issues. The 30 of them that actually were built all ended up in Canada. Cat dropped the ball on the svx. The solution to the left hand clutch/brake lever has existed since about 2012. Add a recluse, hi-lo beam and all that other crap, and it would of been sscc compliant. https://www.clake.com.au/clake-prolever-dual-standard-control/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: I presume you are referring to the aforementioned Arctic Cat Sno Bike? Are they currently for sale? Any other certified MSV’s that you are aware of? TThere is one I know of for sale here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, RAMSOMAIR said: I saw a Snow Hawk on the trail today near Port Sydney. I almost yanked the dude off of it. Really, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyr Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 44 minutes ago, dirtybeacher said: Why would you do that? Snow hawks are trail legal. Correct. The Snow-Hawk was TC approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Well I dint know that. And yessss he was trenching the trail and no permit. Idiot needs to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 It appears this is required in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 11 hours ago, RAMSOMAIR said: Well I dint know that. And yessss he was trenching the trail and no permit. Idiot needs to go! My son had a Snow Hawk one season. Had it permitted and went through a police / trail patrol stop and no issue about it being on the trail. I was glad to see him trade it off as he got hurt almost every time he rode it. Not enough snow down here in the south for those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Still waiting to hear what other machines are legal MSV’s along with ADBoivin Snow Hawk. It doesn’t appear that ADBoivin is now manufacturing Snow Hawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariof7 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On a related topic; does anyone know the 2020 release dates for the OEM's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka1 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 2:42 PM, Bigfish said: Interesting concept with the mono skid, but really a 2 stroke! Why? Lighter than a 4 stroke for the mountains! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 10 hours ago, bbakernbay said: Still waiting to hear what other machines are legal MSV’s along with ADBoivin Snow Hawk. It doesn’t appear that ADBoivin is now manufacturing Snow Hawks. The cat snow bike is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 those two stroke leaked photos are just a wrapped cat alpha1. someone has ALOT OF MONEY, AND TIME, to pull your chains. not that i wouldnt jump right on the bandwagon and order one if this was a cat, yamaha 2 stroke collaboration. but alas... it will never happen. Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 2017 Arctic Cat SVX 450 NEW MODELS / FEATURES December 16, 2016 0 When Arctic Cat Inc. unveiled its snowmobile lineup for the 2017 model year, it included the SVX 450 – the industry’s first OEM purpose-built, single-ski snow vehicle. Commented Arctic Cat President and CEO Christopher Metz: “We have entered an all-new category with the lightweight and agile SVX 450 snow bike, which will be purpose-built to meet all snowmobile certification standards.” Purpose-built to meet all snowmobile certification standards – that means it will be sold as a “snowmobile”, registered as a “snowmobile” and legal to ride anywhere and everywhere a “snowmobile” is legal to ride. Including groomed trails. This is a monumental step into territory that kit-bikes have not (legally) been able to enter. Metz continued, “It’s an industry first. No one has ever delivered a trail-legal manufactured snow bike. We took the best of a dirt bike and snowmobile and married them together. It’s smaller and more nimble. This is a hero product that will make people look at us (Arctic Cat) differently.” Snow biking is a growing sport across western North America. Arctic Cat’s patented SVX 450 is designed to provide an exciting new experience for riders who want the lightest, most affordable vehicle for mountain riding. Retail pricing has not been released as of yet, so the statement of “most affordable” can not be truly evaluated. As for being the lightest, chances are very good this will indeed be a very light vehicle (compared to traditional snowmobiles), but also realize it will have far less horsepower than a traditional snowmobile so we can only speculate as to the power to weight ratio for now. That said, current snow bike conversions have proven their ability as fun, agile and capable snow machines that can take riders to places with ease, compared to the much bigger and heavier traditional mountain sleds. The development of the SVX 450’s revolutionary single-beam skid frame was a collaborative effort between Arctic Cat and Camso – the industry leader in track designs – to be lightweight and agile, and provide traction on the steepest hills and backcountry adventures. The front precision-engineered ski complements the rear suspension, providing the maximum amount of flotation in deep snow and accurate handling and control on the trail, while the powerful 450cc, 4-stroke engine with electronic fuel injection propels the SVX through unchartered snow terrain. However, there are several engineering hurdles that must be overcome to make this machine a “snowmobile” (as we understand it). One of them is that it must have a left-hand brake. Any of us who ride motorcycles will understand this poses a problem, as we are all familiar with using a left-hand clutch on a motorcycle. But, snowmobilers are used to a left-hand brake lever, and for a vehicle to meet SSCC (Snowmobile Safety Certification Committee) specifications for a snowmobile, it MUST have a left-hand brake. We suspect this could be one of the items that is challenging the release of the SVX 450. The solution we have seen on pre-production units is a dual-piston master cylinder for a single left-hand lever that actuates both the clutch (first) and brake (second). Anytime you pull the lever to the bars to shift, as you would on a motorcycle, it would apply the brakes. It would also mean anytime you pull the lever to put on the brakes that it would also disengage the clutch, so maybe this isn’t an ideal solution to the problem. Perhaps a better solution would be to leave the left-hand lever as a brake lever only, and fit the unit with a Rev-Lock or Recluse clutch, which is a centrifugal clutch that disengages as engine RPMs drop, but would certainly raise the production cost by several hundred dollars. Even better would be to not worry about the left-hand brake requirement, but Arctic Cat wants this machine to be sold as, registered as and legal to ride as a “snowmobile”. Curiously, the pre-production unit most recently on display at Haydays had both a left-hand and right-hand brake lever, with the left-hand lever fitted to a dual-piston master cylinder for both brake and clutch duty. And, there was no foot brake. Hmm. It keeps getting more and more interesting. Another safety requirement of being classified as a “snowmobile” is that the exhaust be contained such that the rider does not contact it. This requirement, on a motorcycle, seems rather silly, but it is what it is. We’ve been told that Arctic Cat is actively working on meeting this requirement, but they were not ready to show the solution as of yet. And there are many others. The intensity of the headlight. The location of the reflectors. The noise level of the exhaust. There is quite a long list of safety requirements for this, or any vehicle, to be considered a “snowmobile”. These are the kinds of battles a manufacturer must face when they enter a totally new arena with a radically different machine, similar to what BRP faced with their 3-wheeled Spyder and what Polaris faced with their 3-wheeled Slingshot. Different machines sometimes require bending or changing of the rules that were written for days gone by. This also answers the questions Arctic Cat is fielding, like, “Why is it taking so long to bring the SVX 450 to market?” Fuel is fed via a Synerject Fuel Injection System. Engine braking is controlled at different levels depending on engine capacity for optimum feeling while riding. Basically, it uses a “stepper” system which controls small bursts of fuel charge when you shut the throttle to reduce engine braking and gives the bike a fantastic level of control in corner entry, as the consistent feel when both on and off the gas inspires confidence and balance from the chassis without any diving. If it was simply just another snow bike, it would have been far easier, but Arctic Cat wants to be able to sell it as a “snowmobile” so it can enjoy all of the benefits as such. The question will be, by the time they get there, will the sled become heavier, more complex, not have enough power, better suited if it had a CVT transmission, and too expensive? We do not know, but are very curious to find out. Seeing how Arctic Cat has told the world this will be a 2017 model, we anxiously await further details on product availability, retail pricing, and look forward to actually being able to ride this machine. Arctic Cat CEO Christopher Metz has stated it will ship to dealers in December, and their website says “available winter 2017” so we remain hopeful. Arctic Cat has not provided test ride opportunities or action photo opportunities at any of their official 2017 snowmobile introductions or photo shoots, which is quite unusually considering they expect to be selling this as a 2017 model. Our best bet is that they will be producing a very limited number of units for the coming season, maybe something like 50-100 of them, primarily as dealer demo units and maybe a few test units will get out. Stay tuned, this could get exciting. The SVX 450 is based on the Sherco 450 – a less-known dirt bike from a French manufacturer. Sherco just added the 450cc model to their dirt bike model line in 2015. It features an all-new and incredibly compact 450cc engine had been in development for three years. The 450cc engine is a very cool motor, with the highlight being in how compact it is. The motor weighs in at under 65 pounds, with electric start. It features a unique camshaft gear drive system, which operates from one large chain-driven gear transferring the motion to the cams, rather than the chain wrapping around each of the two camshaft gears. The piston is a double-bridge unit using Formula 1 technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 From Jan 19/18 Snowtrax WHAT'S A SNOWMOBILE? Back to Craig Kennedy. Craig was quick to acknowledge Arctic Cat is still "in" the Snow Bike game, however, he made it clear there are some ongoing challenges with the product relating to SSCC certification. We heard from industry insiders that to be a "snowmobile" a vehicle needs a left side handlebar brake and a right side throttle flipper – not a barrel style throttle that can be prone to freezing. From what we understand Cat did develop a left side brake lever that functioned as a clutch for the first part of the lever travel and a brake when squeezed further. No word if SSCC approved this design or not. We also heard noises about noise - the need to silence a 450 dirt bike engine to "snowmobile" legal levels presents some hefty challenges, not the least of which is where do you hang a large muffler on a 450 dirt bike with a track in the rear? Kennedy indicated Arctic Cat would continue to work on the SVX project. In other words, Cat doesn’t want to walk away from the snow bike biz so they're keeping one foot in the door. That’s a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: From Jan 19/18 Snowtrax WHAT'S A SNOWMOBILE? Back to Craig Kennedy. Craig was quick to acknowledge Arctic Cat is still "in" the Snow Bike game, however, he made it clear there are some ongoing challenges with the product relating to SSCC certification. We heard from industry insiders that to be a "snowmobile" a vehicle needs a left side handlebar brake and a right side throttle flipper – not a barrel style throttle that can be prone to freezing. From what we understand Cat did develop a left side brake lever that functioned as a clutch for the first part of the lever travel and a brake when squeezed further. No word if SSCC approved this design or not. We also heard noises about noise - the need to silence a 450 dirt bike engine to "snowmobile" legal levels presents some hefty challenges, not the least of which is where do you hang a large muffler on a 450 dirt bike with a track in the rear? Kennedy indicated Arctic Cat would continue to work on the SVX project. In other words, Cat doesn’t want to walk away from the snow bike biz so they're keeping one foot in the door. That’s a good thing. All I know is they are registered here in Ontario as a snowmobile and they are legal. Not that anyone wants one for trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 7 hours ago, zoso said: All I know is they are registered here in Ontario as a snowmobile and they are legal. Not that anyone wants one for trails. This is correct the only snowbike to carry the correct colour ownership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 6:09 PM, bbakernbay said: Is there any push by the Manufacturers to get Snow Bikes recognized by MTO as a Legal Motorized Snow Vehicle which would make them eligible for OFSC Trail Permits and use on OFSC trails? Cat gave up on that pursuit. There would also be way too many jurisdictions for them to work on that approach, especially in the U.S. On 1/26/2019 at 7:20 PM, zoso said: The arctic cat sno bike is a MSV and can ride on trails.The msva states it must be built as a motorized snow vehicle at the factory, so conversions are not legal. They never got approval of it as a snowmobile in the jurisdiction so no it isn't allowed. They tried hard, lost and gave up the battle. On 1/26/2019 at 8:24 PM, scottyr said: I am not going to argue back and forth but it is NOT approved as an MSV. Cat couldnt figure out how to get the brake onto the left hand side of the bars and still have a manual clutch as per the MVSA regs. Arctic Cat couldnt even sell them in the USA due to liability issues. The 30 of them that actually were built all ended up in Canada. Yes. I am sure that someone in Ontario got theirs licenced as a snowmobile but that means nothing. I got my offroad competition dirt bike licenced with a street plate but that doesnt necessarily mean its legal. I guarantee that there is no Transport Canada approval sticker on the Cat snow bike. I saw one at the sled show and made a point of looking for the TC stickers and there are none to be found. Exactly. The Service Ontario offices are franchised and also have part time employees. Many of them tend to know very little if anything about snowmobile licensing. A person I ride with had the original MTO number plate on the side panel of his sled. The panel got busted up when he ran off trail. He went to get a replacement to put on the new side panel. They told him he had to bring the old plate in. He tried to explain it was a sticker and he couldn't unless they wanted him to bring the busted up side panel. He went to another Service Ontario and no problem. Funny how one person will say the OPP have no idea what they are doing for sled enforcement when it suits their argument then say the OPP word is gospel when it suits their argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Wildbill and zoso, sorry I need proof, let us see it in writing to end this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSOMAIR Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 How bout we start a new thread with this Snow Bike thing and carry on with this thread as intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtybeacher Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 14 hours ago, skidooboy said: those two stroke leaked photos are just a wrapped cat alpha1. someone has ALOT OF MONEY, AND TIME, to pull your chains. not that i wouldnt jump right on the bandwagon and order one if this was a cat, yamaha 2 stroke collaboration. but alas... it will never happen. Ski Ya I would agree it’s likely a hoax. Although one can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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