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zoso

QC puts the hammer down.

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Agreed. My 2 cents is that the penalty for the infraction is not enough of a deterrent. 

 

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1 minute ago, pt3189 said:

Agreed. My 2 cents is that the penalty for the infraction is not enough of a deterrent. 

 

Thank you for agreeing

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38 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

It's a real simple concept. Whatever upsets or concerns the generous landowners that LET us use their property is something that should be of concern to every snowmobiler.

 

Yup... troll for sure..

 

i honestly thought I made a well thought out post and I thought I gave clear reasons and potential solutions. It’s dissapointing that I put in a real effort and absolutely did no trolling.  

 

I’m not sure why you got so offended just because I don’t think policing will be effective for cost and manpower reasons but I won’t post anything else on the topic. I just wish you and other would have been more open minded as this topic is serious for me as a sledder, volunteer and a landowner.  Not everyone is an a-ho just because they have other ideas. 

Edited by Webdogg

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Webdogg, I saw logic in your words.

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The OPP have assigned 3 teams consisting of 18 members to conduct enforcement on the OFSC trails. Input from stakeholders and private landowners is a part of how they develop patrol strategies. They have a zero tolerance approach to cannister style mufflers and off trail riding in those areas that the club identify as problematic.

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17 hours ago, Webdogg said:

Your missing the point, you need money to have someone out there writing fines.  You want your permit dollars being used for that?

Webdog,  there used to be a resource that had little to no cost and was charged with enforcing the MSVA, Tresspass to Property ACT. It supplemented the regular OPP force and provided extra coverage on trail. There was even a concerted effort to get significantly more volunteers trained in what I believe was an increased concern over speeding, other safety issues, permit compliance and off trail riding. 

 

It was called STOP. But that program was cancelled without any plan to replace the on trail coverage that was lost. The result was/is a noted increase in permit noncompliance and off trail riding. 

 

I dont want to hijack the thread with a discussion over the reasons STOP was cancelled but the OFSC and the OPP both played a role. It will be up to the grass roots clubs to demand a resurrection of STOP through their District Governor and failing that a member resolution at AGM  requiring action. 

 

As to the theory that we need to bring social pressure to bear to correct the problems. The drinking and driving scenario is quoted as the example. As it was stated it’s been 20 years and we still have problems with impaired driving. I honestly don’t believe we have 20 years to deal with the problem. The sport will be a distant memory by then. 

Edited by Big Pete
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1 hour ago, Big Pete said:

Webdog,  there used to be a resource that had little to no cost and was charged with enforcing the MSVA, Tresspass to Property ACT. It supplemented the regular OPP force and provided extra coverage on trail. There was even a concerted effort to get significantly more volunteers trained in what I believe was an increased concern over speeding, other safety issues, permit compliance and off trail riding. 

 

It was called STOP. But that program was cancelled without any plan to replace the on trail coverage that was lost. The result was/is a noted increase in permit noncompliance and off trail riding. 

 

I dont want to hijack the thread with a discussion over the reasons STOP was cancelled but the OFSC and the OPP both played a role. It will be up to the grass roots clubs to demand a resurrection of STOP through their District Governor and failing that a member resolution at AGM  requiring action. 

 

As to the theory that we need to bring social pressure to bear to correct the problems. The drinking and driving scenario is quoted as the example. As it was stated it’s been 20 years and we still have problems with impaired driving. I honestly don’t believe we have 20 years to deal with the problem. The sport will be a distant memory by then. 

Not to mention that the international lobby group MADD brought enforcement to a whole new level!

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Use the Quebec model, bring back STOP, demand protection/enforcement from the people to whom we pay license fees and taxes and I assume a portion of our OFSC fees to (it IS an MTO document), whatever.

Don't tell me about the cost. Tax on insurance, vehicles, the fuel we burn, puts it in the same category as an automobile. 

Obviously, what's currently happening is not working.

I don't wish to be known as a participant/member of the generation of snowmobilers that allowed the collapse of Ontario snowmobiling on our watch.

And did nothing.

It's a small minority of A-holes trying to fulfill whatever is missing in their lives with noise and "outlaw" behaviour.

I know how this is dealt with in other provinces. It works. The province has to care, and have an investment in the activity. Sadly, other than a token involvement, Ontario is not there.

I also know how this behaviour is dealt with in other sports. It's called self policing, and it too works. It's not politically correct, and it's messy, but effective. 

Rules need to be in place, and enforced, or chaos ensues. 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

Use the Quebec model, bring back STOP, demand protection/enforcement from the people to whom we pay license fees and taxes and I assume a portion of our OFSC fees to (it IS an MTO document), whatever.

Don't tell me about the cost. Tax on insurance, vehicles, the fuel we burn, puts it in the same category as an automobile. 

Obviously, what's currently happening is not working.

I don't wish to be known as a participant/member of the generation of snowmobilers that allowed the collapse of Ontario snowmobiling on our watch.

And did nothing.

It's a small minority of A-holes trying to fulfill whatever is missing in their lives with noise and "outlaw" behaviour.

I know how this is dealt with in other provinces. It works. The province has to care, and have an investment in the activity. Sadly, other than a token involvement, Ontario is not there.

I also know how this behaviour is dealt with in other sports. It's called self policing, and it too works. It's not politically correct, and it's messy, but effective. 

Rules need to be in place, and enforced, or chaos ensues. 

Ain't that the truth?

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41 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

Use the Quebec model, bring back STOP, demand protection/enforcement from the people to whom we pay license fees and taxes and I assume a portion of our OFSC fees to (it IS an MTO document), whatever.

Don't tell me about the cost. Tax on insurance, vehicles, the fuel we burn, puts it in the same category as an automobile. 

Obviously, what's currently happening is not working.

I don't wish to be known as a participant/member of the generation of snowmobilers that allowed the collapse of Ontario snowmobiling on our watch.

And did nothing.

It's a small minority of A-holes trying to fulfill whatever is missing in their lives with noise and "outlaw" behaviour.

I know how this is dealt with in other provinces. It works. The province has to care, and have an investment in the activity. Sadly, other than a token involvement, Ontario is not there.

I also know how this behaviour is dealt with in other sports. It's called self policing, and it too works. It's not politically correct, and it's messy, but effective. 

Rules need to be in place, and enforced, or chaos ensues. 

 

 

 

So,perhaps we need to create a club. 1% er sled club. Instead of selling meth and running hookers, we will enforce the no cans policy through intimidation, beatings, bombings, and general mayhem brought upon those that tread on our turf and disrespect us. Now we need a name and a patch.

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5 minutes ago, zoso said:

So,perhaps we need to create a club. 1% er sled club. Instead of selling meth and running hookers, we will enforce the no cans policy through intimidation, beatings, bombings, and general mayhem brought upon those that tread on our turf and disrespect us. Now we need a name and a patch.

Do the clubhouses resemble armed fortifications?

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7 minutes ago, revrnd said:

Do the clubhouses resemble armed fortifications?

No clubhouse, we are the elite nomads. Roaming from area to area cleaning it up as we go. We will be financed by a go fund me go fck u page.

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1 minute ago, zoso said:

No clubhouse, we are the elite nomads. Roaming from area to area cleaning it up as we go. We will be financed by a go fund me go fck u page.

LOL

I'll remember not to go camping w/ you...

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Just now, revrnd said:

LOL

I'll remember not to go camping w/ you...

Just spitballing. If you want a fortified clubhouse perhaps we just patch over every club member and take care of our areas within each charter. Outlaw sled clubs, an entirely new concept. I think this may solve all the cans, trespassing, drunks, and any other issues. prospects clean sleds and do the brushing.

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We will however not play dress up and look like a member of the village people like those motorcycle clubs tend to do.

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Just now, zoso said:

Just spitballing. If you want a fortified clubhouse perhaps we just patch over every club member and take care of our areas within each charter. Outlaw sled clubs, an entirely new concept. I think this may solve all the cans, trespassing, drunks, and any other issues. prospects clean sleds and do the brushing.

The 'no camping' reference was from the Hells Angels that were found in the St Lawrence in weighted down sleeping bags back in the 80s.

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Just now, revrnd said:

The 'no camping' reference was from the Hells Angels that were found in the St Lawrence in weighted down sleeping bags back in the 80s.

I had no idea, I was out of town that week. lol. How about the banditos when they were all shot at the same time in south western ontario...and then there is qc.  Can you imagine if sledding was anything like motorcycle culture. 

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1 minute ago, zoso said:

I had no idea, I was out of town that week. lol. How about the banditos when they were all shot at the same time in south western ontario...and then there is qc.  Can you imagine if sledding was anything like motorcycle culture. 

Definitely a sketchy crowd to 'associate' w/...

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5 minutes ago, zoso said:

We will however not play dress up and look like a member of the village people like those motorcycle clubs tend to do.

I was thinking more along the lines of the biker from Cheech & Chong's Next Movie 

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15 minutes ago, revrnd said:

I was thinking more along the lines of the biker from Cheech & Chong's Next Movie 

Every which way but loose.

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