QC puts the hammer down.

[SpiritWalker]

20 hours ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said:

Ok I'll bite, what can / muffler meets the same level as stock? Since  aftermarket can at the very best doesn't hurt power but in many cases actually hurts it (except on 4 strokes), except for looking to make more noise, where is the upside? Way back in the dinosaur days, tested several cans on my then ZR800 / 900 against a test sled, not a single one made more power and all but one actually hurt it. Same results on my 07 + 08 F1000s. Only found one that I thought was gonna be ok, had an amazing sound at idle and low rpm, no louder than stock but way cool however once on the trail and opened the power valves, it was just just all the rest, ridiculous.  As for the wt argument, please.  Difference between full vs tank almost empty is way more than can takes off, sled doesn't feel appreciably different no matter how much is in there.

Long overdue we get serious about taking stock of our own and others we ride with actions or only place we'll be smelling two stoke is in our own garages. Same goes for this incessant need to drink and ride then toss beer cans n garbage in the snow.

And for the record, find it offensive when I see those commercials SuperTrax runs. Talk about promoting something that is a real life problem, might as well set up a trailside bar at the same time.

Ya I'm a lil extra cranky when my sleds down.

2 strokes with cans are annoying, they make less power because 2 strokes need back pressure. I am talking about 4 strokes. My exhaust is not stock and it is not as loud as the new triple 4 strokes that are stock. So I would get a ticket for being quiet? I don't know, kind of doesn't make sense to me. 

[zoso]

3 hours ago, tricky said:

What do we want? Funny that you should ask that exact question. 

 

We (most of us) want to have, and see protected, a Provincial user-pay trail network that is continuously linked east to west and north to south, without having big holes in it, that render it unworthy of our investment. It is not some socialist ideology that is closing down our trails! It is disrespect for others, as manifested in several ways, but trespassing and noisy exhaust systems are two issues that are undeniably causing many private land owners and some municipalities to revoke permission to allow OFSC trails on their property. What we want is to stop, and/or reverse this trend, so that we can continue to enjoy our shrinking trail network. 

 

Peer pressure or societal education is not going to change the behaviour of those who are currently sabotaging our sport by trespassing and/or creating needless loud noise at all hours of the day. What is primarily required is law enforcement. There might also need be some laws/bylaws tweaked (bureaucratic red tap!???).

 

What we want is that law enforcement to focus on noise and trespassing at a level commensurate with the threat that is being posed by a relatively few (but significant number of) a-holes who either have no idea, or don't care. No communist plot, no modern manifesto - just taking care of business!

Most of us reading this forum are not promoters of big brother or big government, but we sure as hell don't want to see our trail network lost to the irresponsibility of a small minority. We want them dealt with quickly and fairly. That's all. The end.

Great post. It pretty much sums up what every single volunteer and mature tril rider that wnts to sustain the system understands and wants. Anyone that know me understands I am not a fan of government, however I am a fan of reason.

[zoso]

1 hour ago, SpiritWalker said:

2 strokes with cans are annoying, they make less power because 2 strokes need back pressure. I am talking about 4 strokes. My exhaust is not stock and it is not as loud as the new triple 4 strokes that are stock. So I would get a ticket for being quiet? I don't know, kind of doesn't make sense to me. 

No cop will ask to look at your muffler if it is as described, but yes, if one did, then you may well get a ticket for being quiet.

[ZR SLEDHEAD]

2 hours ago, SpiritWalker said:

2 strokes with cans are annoying, they make less power because 2 strokes need back pressure. I am talking about 4 strokes. My exhaust is not stock and it is not as loud as the new triple 4 strokes that are stock. So I would get a ticket for being quiet? I don't know, kind of doesn't make sense to me. 

Personally, stock or not, so long as it's quiet who cares who made it. 

[revrnd]

4 hours ago, tricky said:

What do we want? Funny that you should ask that exact question. 

 

We (most of us) want to have, and see protected, a Provincial user-pay trail network that is continuously linked east to west and north to south, without having big holes in it, that render it unworthy of our investment. It is not some socialist ideology that is closing down our trails! It is disrespect for others, as manifested in several ways, but trespassing and noisy exhaust systems are two issues that are undeniably causing many private land owners and some municipalities to revoke permission to allow OFSC trails on their property. What we want is to stop, and/or reverse this trend, so that we can continue to enjoy our shrinking trail network. 

 

Peer pressure or societal education is not going to change the behaviour of those who are currently sabotaging our sport by trespassing and/or creating needless loud noise at all hours of the day. What is primarily required is law enforcement. There might also need be some laws/bylaws tweaked (bureaucratic red tap!???).

 

What we want is that law enforcement to focus on noise and trespassing at a level commensurate with the threat that is being posed by a relatively few (but significant number of) a-holes who either have no idea, or don't care. No communist plot, no modern manifesto - just taking care of business!

Most of us reading this forum are not promoters of big brother or big government, but we sure as hell don't want to see our trail network lost to the irresponsibility of a small minority. We want them dealt with quickly and fairly. That's all. The end.

 

How many db meters could be purchased for the money that will be wasted on the chopper PR stunt? Going after cans may not address the 'safety issues' facing the sport, but maybe it will discourage some of the Ricky Racer wannabes & they'll get rid of their sleds...

 

A person can wish can't they?

[SpiritWalker]

20 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

How many db meters could be purchased for the money that will be wasted on the chopper PR stunt? Going after cans may not address the 'safety issues' facing the sport, but maybe it will discourage some of the Ricky Racer wannabes & they'll get rid of their sleds...

 

A person can wish can't they?

Exactly, I am a saddle bagger. We don't braaap, or run unsafe speeds. If I hit a big lake I crank it up to the 285hp setting. Just to feel the rush. By the time I hit the end of the lake it's back in the 240hp setting. We always Ride slow around towns and private property. Been riding a long time. FYI, you can download a decibel meter on your phone. I have one. I use it for work I work construction. In residential areas it has to be a certain decibel or you can be fined. Doesn't have to be stock though. 

[SpiritWalker]

1 hour ago, zoso said:

No cop will ask to look at your muffler if it is as described, but yes, if one did, then you may well get a ticket for being quiet.

That's just not right. So if you have a four-wheeler with a super quiet exhaust for hunting they can't take it you also, it's not stock. 

[zoso]

2 minutes ago, SpiritWalker said:

That's just not right. So if you have a four-wheeler with a super quiet exhaust for hunting they can't take it you also, it's not stock. 

Not sure, would ave to read the atv regs, the msva is for sleds only.

 

[SpiritWalker]

25 minutes ago, zoso said:

Not sure, would ave to read the atv regs, the msva is for sleds only.

 

But does that make sense to you?? Should be if you have a quieter than stock exhaust your trail permit should be reduced.

[zoso]

23 minutes ago, SpiritWalker said:

But does that make sense to you?? Should be if you have a quieter than stock exhaust your trail permit should be reduced.

Matters not if it makes sense, it is the law. If you come here with  an aftermarket exhust, and if by chance a cop thinks it is loud and looks, you get a fine. Unless the exhust is stamped nd tested to SAE standards, which none that I know of other than OEM are.

[Techdenis007]

38 minutes ago, SpiritWalker said:

But does that make sense to you?? Should be if you have a quieter than stock exhaust your trail permit should be reduced.

 

13 minutes ago, zoso said:

Matters not if it makes sense, it is the law. If you come here with  an aftermarket exhust, and if by chance a cop thinks it is loud and looks, you get a fine. Unless the exhust is stamped nd tested to SAE standards, which none that I know of other than OEM are.

 

I agree that it may not make sense, but I have to side with Zoso on this issue. I firmly believe that you will most likely be charged with ANY aftermarket exhaust, simply because there's no trailside testing equipment in the enforcement personnel's bag to actually verify louder or quieter. Its either stock, or it isn't. 

 

Remember, these officers are people too, with pretty respectable senses of observation. If there's a different sound coming from your exhaust than other similar sleds, I'm about sure they'll know it long before you pull over. 

 

As of today, the baseline used is, stock is ok, anything else is not. Take that however way you choose.  I respect your opinion and thoughts, and Skidooboy as well.

 

And I can also respect the guy with the trail can that rides smoothly along in residential areas and in town, in the right hands its not an issue. Sadly this is more often than not, the exception not the rule. 

[zoso]

16 minutes ago, Denis007 said:

 

 

I agree that it may not make sense, but I have to side with Zoso on this issue. I firmly believe that you will most likely be charged with ANY aftermarket exhaust, simply because there's no trailside testing equipment in the enforcement personnel's bag to actually verify louder or quieter. Its either stock, or it isn't. 

  %

[ZR SLEDHEAD]

Power gains on the turbo sleds, especially when cranked up, are substantial. However, just like performance cars, not difficult to gain huge flow without making it a heat score. 

[zoso]

28 minutes ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said:

Power gains on the turbo sleds, especially when cranked up, are substantial. However, just like performance cars, not difficult to gain huge flow without making it a heat score. 

I agree if you are putting 20lbs of boost, running a meth kit then you will wan an exhaust system to match, but is that power needed when running the trails, no, so put it stock and use your power adders when you are ring it. 210 hp stock out of the thundercat, is that not enough to run trails?

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, SpiritWalker said:

But does that make sense to you?? Should be if you have a quieter than stock exhaust your trail permit should be reduced.

 

 

It made sense 30 years ago when these laws were written, well before 4 strokes or quiet mufflers. They were only seeing race pipes at that time and the easiest way to write the law was to make it a blanket "you can't touch anything" statement. The times have changed but the laws have not kept pace.  Plenty of states in the USA use a DB level to ticket sleds and it seems to work just fine there.

 

 

 

 

[Blackstar]

30 minutes ago, zoso said:

I agree if you are putting 20lbs of boost, running a meth kit then you will wan an exhaust system to match, but is that power needed when running the trails, no, so put it stock and use your power adders when you are ring it. 210 hp stock out of the thundercat, is that not enough to run trails?

The speed limit is 50 kph so a 340 fanner is all anyone needs right?

[Techdenis007]

10 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The speed limit is 50 kph so a 340 fanner is all anyone needs right?

 

I'd trade my 800 for 3 340's in a heartbeat. 

[revrnd]

9 minutes ago, Denis007 said:

 

I'd trade my 800 for 3 340's in a heartbeat. 

 

Then it would take you a day & a half to ride to Kap' (1 way) LOL

[02Sled]

11 hours ago, crispy said:

Im pro Canada, not anti government and I speak to what matters best I can see with respect to that.

 

For instance lets flip the switch here and look at this from the other side of the coin. Lets say we target student loan defaults as a major problem to the Canadian economy and start charging defaulters with extra fines that are paid immediately on the spot or garnished until paid before any money these note holders may have/use to purchase anything else.

 

Sound crazy to most, yet to me I see very little difference between that type of law enforcement I could start screaming for vs the so called street racing law where police can use judge/jury powers at the side of the road escaping due process because its in the greater good.

 

How could I make such a comparison? Simple; Canadas health care system is grossly under funded right now and all those student debts left unpaid KILL exponentially more people every year because thats one less dollar we could use to save lives, wasted on bureaucratic ambitions.

 

These perspectives are very far from anti-government, they are anti bureaucrat/waste/ideologue power positions and I do my very best to explain them without disrespecting anyone. Name calling galore of which I have done none of. Insults all over of which I have done none of. I write to the betterment of all

 

What do you want?

 

 

Wow just wow! 

[revrnd]

17 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

Wow just wow! 

Do what I & others have done...

[Poo Man]

Can we please stop quoting him so I don't have to see it....

 

[zoso]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

The speed limit is 50 kph so a 340 fanner is all anyone needs right?

Ya, that is what I am saying.

[snowman]

A few local land owners put up this sign just off the trail.   Seems like the noise issue of the aftermarket pipes is really starting to piss a lot of people off.   I like my toys to be quite as do most of us here it seems.  Just the odd die hard that just doesn't seem to get it, and ultimately that will ruin it for the rest of us.  Same category as trespassers if you ask me.

[crispy]

16 hours ago, tricky said:

What do we want? Funny that you should ask that exact question. 

 

We (most of us) want to have, and see protected, a Provincial user-pay trail network that is continuously linked east to west and north to south, without having big holes in it, that render it unworthy of our investment. It is not some socialist ideology that is closing down our trails! It is disrespect for others, as manifested in several ways, but trespassing and noisy exhaust systems are two issues that are undeniably causing many private land owners and some municipalities to revoke permission to allow OFSC trails on their property. What we want is to stop, and/or reverse this trend, so that we can continue to enjoy our shrinking trail network. 

 

Peer pressure or societal education is not going to change the behaviour of those who are currently sabotaging our sport by trespassing and/or creating needless loud noise at all hours of the day. What is primarily required is law enforcement. There might also need be some laws/bylaws tweaked (bureaucratic red tap!???).

 

What we want is that law enforcement to focus on noise and trespassing at a level commensurate with the threat that is being posed by a relatively few (but significant number of) a-holes who either have no idea, or don't care. No communist plot, no modern manifesto - just taking care of business!

Most of us reading this forum are not promoters of big brother or big government, but we sure as hell don't want to see our trail network lost to the irresponsibility of a small minority. We want them dealt with quickly and fairly. That's all. The end.

 

I cannot argue that one bit, excellent reply.

 

I am frustrated over the over reach issue only because there has been a little discussion on it online and most of us dont like the cans and suddenly all over the news is multiple places its a giant effort by the police in what looks to be more of an attack on our lifestyles than a public interest. Or certainly a factor that is a constant over the past fifteen years or so and its to that I push back. Regardless lets put that aside for the moment and stick with your excellent response. In bold, this is the wedge issue imo. This is the door we have to work with and I mentioned before my preferred approach to this instead of the police but as Im sure most here can see I am unafraid of reaching out to others even when they seem angry or dismissive of what I say I try, and if everyone else put in the same kind of effort this wouldn't be an issue at all. We wouldn't have young lads in our community falling through the cracks so far they simply dont care about us anymore. On that front I believe we are facing some very interesting days ahead, when this generation takes over.

 

 

[crispy]

9 hours ago, 02Sled said:

Wow just wow! 

In order to understand what we should do as we move forward we need to understand what we have done, why we did it, and what the results were. Then we churn out NEW ideas and solutions from all sorts of positions to figure out the best way to proceed. Pointing out an obvious financial issue that is a common among most Canadians under 40 and then drawing a position on it as a crime is a clear shock to you and to most and precisely why its important to look to shake things up a bit.

 

So lets look at some simple cost comparissons.

 

1. OPP helicopters and drones to chase speeding snowmobilers

OR

2. A new MRI machine at a hospital in the North?

Probably around the same cost and which one serves the public safety and interest better? The answer seems blatantly obvious to me. We could do this for months and position cost vs against every single bureaucracy systemic fails in Canada and within a couple years become the #1 ranked UN country to live in and by a good strong margin too. Thats leadership, thats what I want. real solutions that help us all and I want to get as FAR away as possible from this Trudopian moronic approach to virtue concepts as we can.