Poo Man Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: What years were clubs giving out free trail passes to landowners? I became a club director in 2000 and our club never gave them out from that time forward. Not sure, someone mentioned it in this thread and I had heard of it before. Might be a good idea, costs the ofsc almost nothing and could incourage land owners to participate in the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, Poo Man said: Not sure, someone mentioned it in this thread and I had heard of it before. Might be a good idea, costs the ofsc almost nothing and could incourage land owners to participate in the sport. Don't think it can happen now that the MOT is involved in the permits. I think the tax rebate would be better since it would help all our landowners. In our club probably 50% of our landowners are mennonites who don't have/use snowmobiles so would get no value from a free permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, Poo Man said: Not sure, someone mentioned it in this thread and I had heard of it before. Might be a good idea, costs the ofsc almost nothing and could incourage land owners to participate in the sport. The permits are actually owned by MTO. The pricing actually has to be approved by the MTO as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Our club stopped doing it years ago we were getting a lot of, "but I got 3 sleds, how come you won't give me 3 permits" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Poo Man said: Why was the free trail pass thing stopped? MTO involvement? I was told that if a landowner receives a benefit, they can be brought into litigation. Free passage to cross land - buyer ( rider ) beware. If the landowner benefits ( and this was in days of 2 free ofsc passes to landowner ) - well, you effectively charged $400 and your burden increased . They stopped handing out passes years ago. Work gloves were a nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 55 minutes ago, Canuck said: They stopped handing out passes years ago. Work gloves were a nice touch. Canuck, was there an actual Free Permit for Landowner Program? Or was this something done at a local level (apparently by lots of clubs too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I never knew. It was in the late 90's... basically my introduction to organized trail riding and ofsc. One day in autumn, received a call from neighbour up there - our land was a link to local gas station and further trails. Could they cross it? Explained what ofsc was, we'd get 2 trail passes, sign here. Done. Long time ago. Not sure if it was a local initiative or Barrie based. Unlikely that local club would fund this. Nor come up with the explanation for curtailing free passes after 4 seasons. Free passes would be a huge ROI ( landowner appreciates, buys sleds(s), repairs sleds, etc.). I've bought 6 Yamahas since being introduced to organized sledding via a landowner query. Thanks, Yamaha , for this program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 As far as I recall the free pass was a club initiative. But it was shut down by MTO, several years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 The free pass was shut down by the insurance company it was viewed as rent and that negates the landowners insurance . There were backdoor deals done later however the MTO accountability finished them forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 8:13 AM, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: I believe it was restarted (at least in our area) by the Golden Triangle Snowmobile Association Nick. I remember when we started purchasing them through one of your member's workplace. Guiessing back about 2004. Short story of being out doing landowner visits one very cold and blowing morning this year. Went to a renters farm and he was busy loading manure with a Bobcat. I stood and waited for him to finish. He came over and we completed the Landowners agreement. I had noticed he was wearing a worn pair of GTSA landowner gloves. I handed him a new pair of the District 5 gloves and he thanked me and said "These are the warmest gloves I have ever found. Thanks so much." Amazing what effect a small gift like that has. We had an issue with a collapsed drain tile or something to that effect, and went in the spring to give the gifts and the landowner was very understanding that the repair he could do. We were prepared to get a back hoe there ( club member ) but the farmer was good when he saw we were there to help him out. Maybe he didn't trust our guy LOL Chocolates are also given out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 21 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: What years were clubs giving out free trail passes to landowners? I became a club director in 2000 and our club never gave them out from that time forward. I have been involved as Recorder President and Treasurer and I know through those years we never gave out OFSC trail passes We did have a program and I still have the pass on the Sno Cruiser that as landowners of the Bridgeport Snowmobile Club we gave Bridgeport Snowmobile Club trail permits for free. That entitled the sleds to only use club trails, no further. This was a very short time since when Bill 101 came to effect tail passes could not be given away for free as part of the agreement. IIRC. And I know that with the old Matrix and permits at the club level some creative accounting probably was done to get "free permits " to certain people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 The topic of tax credits for landowners is interesting but if there would be an organized push for it, the government with the books the way they are, would just eliminate the grant money we get, if we still get any at this time. So it could hurt our sport maybe. It's the same old same old oh look at what we are giving you, oh but you lose that. Full disclosure I am a Nipissing Dad LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 For the kids Thanks to club member Higgs Hemi talk soon buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, volunteer2 said: The topic of tax credits for landowners is interesting but if there would be an organized push for it, the government with the books the way they are, would just eliminate the grant money we get, if we still get any at this time. So it could hurt our sport maybe. It's the same old same old oh look at what we are giving you, oh but you lose that. Full disclosure I am a Nipissing Dad LOL Probably not. The grant money comes from the province and is from a specific ministry budget. A property tax credit for a trail would impact the property taxes that are paid at the MUNICIPAL level. The city, township etc. would see less property tax from that landowner. If the municipality has a budget of $50M they look at the total assessed value of all properties in their jurisdiction and establish a mil rate that will give them that $50M. If there were to be a tax credit for landowners with trails on their properties totalling perhaps $100K that $100K less revenue from those landowners would be absorbed by the other landowners with a slightly higher mil rate since the municipality still needs that $50M tax revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Yes that is true Good point, I didn't think of that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 12:11 AM, volunteer2 said: I remember them well I found my Dad's and they are still new Old school.....you wear them when your old gloves are totally shot We have been giving out gloves now for years and I have always wondered if that gift from the OFSC started it or were other clubs doing it earlier ? Found them but my error. He used them. Other pairs he had were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Does anyone remember this ? It wasn't a permit but a nice sticker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, 02Sled said: Probably not. The grant money comes from the province and is from a specific ministry budget. A property tax credit for a trail would impact the property taxes that are paid at the MUNICIPAL level. The city, township etc. would see less property tax from that landowner. If the municipality has a budget of $50M they look at the total assessed value of all properties in their jurisdiction and establish a mil rate that will give them that $50M. If there were to be a tax credit for landowners with trails on their properties totalling perhaps $100K that $100K less revenue from those landowners would be absorbed by the other landowners with a slightly higher mil rate since the municipality still needs that $50M tax revenue. The tax credit, for it to work, would have to be an income tax credit. There would be no way to get every single municipality on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, zoso said: The tax credit, for it to work, would have to be an income tax credit. There would be no way to get every single municipality on board. Just like the province reduced the size of Toronto city council and are reviewing the workings of other municipalities it is within their preview to mandate it for all municipalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 minute ago, 02Sled said: Just like the province reduced the size of Toronto city council and are reviewing the workings of other municipalities it is within their preview to mandate it for all municipalities. I doubt the province want to pick a fight with all the municipalities just for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, zoso said: I doubt the province want to pick a fight with all the municipalities just for us. The province just announced they are reviewing the structure and operations of all the municipalities. Likely a lot of changes to come. This property tax credit would be minor for most municipalities. Ideally it would be applied to all recreational trails on private property. The Bruce trail comes to mind as do hiking and ATV trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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