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Yamaha steps up.


zoso

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10 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

I carry Tim's cards for groomers and land owners I meet. 

Seriously, I'm in awe of people who own land and stick their neck out.

They are some kind and generous people. 

I know I wouldn't be bothered without some compensation.

There's just too many idiots out there these days, and nowhere near enough patrols.

BBQ’s and gift cards are awesome, but the OFSC should be doing more if our sport is to survive the times I believe.  I know postal workers and teachers who receive more  from their recipients (home owners and students) than many landowners get, sadly.  Agreed that we can’t do enough for the people who make the sport available 

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5 minutes ago, snowman said:

BBQ’s and gift cards are awesome, but the OFSC should be doing more if our sport is to survive the times I believe.  I know postal workers and teachers who receive more  from their recipients (home owners and students) than many landowners get, sadly.  Agreed that we can’t do enough for the people who make the sport available 

Direct compensation for land use is a problem under the current set up. However, our government could easily give a tax credit to those that donate land use for trails. Any level of government could do so, but it would work best if it came from the province. Assign a value per km, and allow a write down of that value on your tax return, Sounds simple, good luck getting it done.

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I agree with the tax credit idea

However we have a lot of absent landowners here, with farms being rented out either to individuals or corporations.

Who would get the tax credit, the owner or the renter?

We have had many occasions where we get the owners permission and the renter refuses permission, and vice versa.

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1 minute ago, Bigfish said:

I agree with the tax credit idea

However we have a lot of absent landowners here, with farms being rented out either to individuals or corporations.

Who would get the tax credit, the owner or the renter?

We have had many occasions where we get the owners permission and the renter refuses permission, and vice versa.

In that scenario the person or company paying the property taxes would get the credit.

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In that case the renter would probably refuse permission as he would not get anything, and the owner would probably lose the renter next time the contract came up.

 

This is the problem with the tax credit

 

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31 minutes ago, Bigfish said:

In that case the renter would probably refuse permission as he would not get anything, and the owner would probably lose the renter next time the contract came up.

 

This is the problem with the tax credit

 

We have a number of farmland renters on our trails. To my knowledge we don't have much problem with them not wanting us on the land they rent certainly not the ones that I do agreements anyway.

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31 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

We have a number of farmland renters on our trails. To my knowledge we don't have much problem with them not wanting us on the land they rent certainly not the ones that I do agreements anyway.

Yes I would agree for our area for sure    It would take one real special crop with rental fees above the norm to create issues. For the most part  land is so valuable around here that there would be a line up when a farmer drops the land rental.  This tax credit was talked about many many years ago with obviosly nothing happening.  And for the part of really not getting anything for the land use,  yup we are lucky to have these people.  And so we must remember when there is crop damage we need to come good for that too.  I also wonder what would happen if the landowners in this province would put the OFSC on notice starting next year all permissions would be revoked if a tax credit is not given.  Something like the situation in Quebec a while ago.    And yes we are landowners ,  oh,  and with winter weat planted .

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we have had several trail losses in the past due to owner/renter issues. (renter says yes, owner says no and vice versa)

Also dealing with owners who live out of country, and don't know what snowmobiling is!

Extremely time consuming

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18 hours ago, ontariof7 said:

Guessing all OEM's are welcomed to participate in any fashion they choose. In the meantime; landowners can pick from a Piano to oil. Lets see BRP Doo that 

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5 hours ago, volunteer2 said:

Yes I would agree for our area for sure    It would take one real special crop with rental fees above the norm to create issues. For the most part  land is so valuable around here that there would be a line up when a farmer drops the land rental.  This tax credit was talked about many many years ago with obviosly nothing happening.  And for the part of really not getting anything for the land use,  yup we are lucky to have these people.  And so we must remember when there is crop damage we need to come good for that too.  I also wonder what would happen if the landowners in this province would put the OFSC on notice starting next year all permissions would be revoked if a tax credit is not given.  Something like the situation in Quebec a while ago.    And yes we are landowners ,  oh,  and with winter weat planted .

On behalf of everyone, thanks Volunteer2.

BTW,  I hope if we see someone who looks kinda like this in your travels, (not saying all land owners do, by ANY means!)

Stop. Say thanks! Without these people,  day rides for the vast majority of us would be a memory.

 

P1000322.JPG

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If I come across a landowner on my travels I am sure to thank them. Minimally if I see someone outside i.e. a farm house I will stop, wave and give them a thumbs up. Then proceed at a moderate speed across THEIR trail.

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1 hour ago, manotickmike said:

On behalf of everyone, thanks Volunteer2.

BTW,  I hope if we see someone who looks kinda like this in your travels, (not saying all land owners do, by ANY means!)

Stop. Say thanks! Without these people,  day rides for the vast majority of us would be a memory.

 

P1000322.JPG

Thanks not really needed at my end, I'm part of the choir.   Been sledding since 12 years so 40 plus years  and won't have it any other way.  There's nothing like being part of the community,  and snowmobile club,  leaving the garage and you can see the trail stakes. But it's such a huge concern for the sport, this weekend again, lot's of follow road to trail signs.  People buying properties and the first thing is get the trail closed. Ya  and in all honesty a gift card or gloves or even tax credit probably wont make a difference.  I don't hunt but we have always allowed it on the farm,  that's what you do as a good neighbour.

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39 minutes ago, volunteer2 said:

Thanks not really needed at my end, I'm part of the choir.   Been sledding since 12 years so 40 plus years  and won't have it any other way.  There's nothing like being part of the community,  and snowmobile club,  leaving the garage and you can see the trail stakes. But it's such a huge concern for the sport, this weekend again, lot's of follow road to trail signs.  People buying properties and the first thing is get the trail closed. Ya  and in all honesty a gift card or gloves or even tax credit probably wont make a difference.  I don't hunt but we have always allowed it on the farm,  that's what you do as a good neighbour.

If only everyone was a generous as you. thanks.

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As Zoso and possibly others have suggested, including myself in long forgotten posts the government needs to subsdise all land owners (not renters) who allow an OFSC trail on their property. It could be a set  amount of money refunded on their property taxes for each individual  property that the trail passes thru.  This could be confirmed by the clubs or associations  or the OFSC with current GPS mapping.  If someone owns more than one property by a different deed or name  that the trail passes thru then each individual parcel or PIN number should receive a rebate. It should not be determined  by the length of the trail as a few hundred feet of trail could be far more important to the trail system than a mile of trail. It may not be an incentive for the wealthy or owners of huge farms but to most land owners , I'm sure it would be appreciated.    We are always presented with facts  and numbers as to how much money snowmobilers pour  into the local economy each year with respect to sled purchase, accessories, fuel for both a sled and a truck, hotels and motels,  restaurants , service , repairs , insurance and whatever. This benefits the whole community and its workforce, not just sledders and therefore the province and or the municipality  should offer some form of financial compensation to all landowners with OFSC trails on their property. The Ontario government and the OFSC has been getting a 'free ride' (including a free weekend ) on the backs of the landowners for to long.

RW

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Sorry, but I think if club offered me a 20.00 gift card to a Yamaha dealer I would be more insulted than not. I know a big chunk of an Orillia trail that was lost due to Landowner not even receiving enough to go out to fast food restaurant with his wife. I don't blame any landowner. I think they should get a tax break to make it  worth it for them to continue letting us use their land all winter. Sorry But that's my opinion.

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45 minutes ago, sheza Classic said:

Sorry, but I think if club offered me a 20.00 gift card to a Yamaha dealer I would be more insulted than not. I know a big chunk of an Orillia trail that was lost due to Landowner not even receiving enough to go out to fast food restaurant with his wife. I don't blame any landowner. I think they should get a tax break to make it  worth it for them to continue letting us use their land all winter. Sorry But that's my opinion.

 Years ago we were given engraced leather work gloves to give out they were very well received 

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When we started out they gave landowners free passes. And if they didn't use them they certainly regifted them to family. I am not slamming Yamaha. I think it's time the prov got on board and make it worth while for landowners to stick their necks out for hundreds of riders they don't even know to use their land all winter.

 

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4 hours ago, zoso said:

If only everyone was a generous as you. thanks.

I have been very fortunate where I live    We have a great community and of course when we have snow it's a great place to ride, the organization here is excellent ( same as the rest of the province )  so it's in the blood to be part of the system 

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We give out OSFC/D5 embossed work gloves to our landowners. Also some of the guys give chocolates for the kids, and a whole lot of thank yous when we visit preseason.  It's a small token but it has always been well received, adn being a lot of mennonite country it fits well for our area. One of my favourite experiences when we were getting some fresh paperwork signed was handing the farmer the gloves and he lit up said thanks to us, and immediate threw them on to help a customer load cabbages while we waited for him to finish up before we finished our paperwork needs.

 

Similarly when we have had any landowner concerns (fortunately been very seldom,) we've had guys out in bright vests pounding all kinds of stakes in as deterrents, and (knock on wood) that mere visibility that we were listening to their concerns and trying to do what we could to correct have gone over really well and kept our trails open.  

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1 hour ago, Wildbill said:

 Years ago we were given engraced leather work gloves to give out they were very well received 

I remember them well       I found my Dad's and they are still new   Old school.....you wear them when your old gloves are totally shot      We have been giving out gloves now for years and I have always wondered if that gift from the OFSC started it or were other clubs doing it earlier ?     

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7 hours ago, volunteer2 said:

I remember them well       I found my Dad's and they are still new   Old school.....you wear them when your old gloves are totally shot      We have been giving out gloves now for years and I have always wondered if that gift from the OFSC started it or were other clubs doing it earlier ?     

I believe it was restarted (at least in our area) by the Golden Triangle Snowmobile Association Nick. I remember when we started purchasing them through one of your member's workplace. Guiessing back about 2004.

Short story of being out doing landowner visits one very cold and blowing morning this year. Went to a renters farm and he was busy loading manure with a Bobcat. I stood and waited for him to finish. He came over and we completed the Landowners agreement. I had noticed he was wearing a worn pair of GTSA landowner gloves. I handed him a new pair of the District 5 gloves and he thanked me and said "These are the warmest gloves I have ever found. Thanks so much."

Amazing what effect a small gift like that has. 

 

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I like the concept of a tax credit from the perspective that it would be tangible recognition from the govt of the economic impact of snowmobiling. We all have probably harped at sometime about the OEMs giving back. Well how about the govt too

 

There are some jurisdictions in the US that provide a tax credit based on length of trail which would be very easy to do with all the gps data we now have. As for the critical landowner that may control a key (but short) piece of trail I would hope that the club or district would bring something extra to the plate to acknowledge the importance of the trail. 

 

The work gloves are a nice touch too. A few years back our district got deal on leather gloves from Stihl. I think they ended up at about $10 per pair. But with close to 3,000 private landowners in our district database that is going to get expensive and put a huge hole on the trails budget. 

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1 hour ago, Poo Man said:

Why was the free trail pass thing stopped? MTO involvement?

What years were clubs giving out free trail passes to landowners? I became a club director in 2000 and our club never gave them out from that time forward.

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1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

What years were clubs giving out free trail passes to landowners? I became a club director in 2000 and our club never gave them out from that time forward.

PLC, haven’t been involved as long as you, since 2007 for me, but I don’t think there was ever any formal program to provide free permits to landowner’s. Clubs would do it on their own. When clubs were doing their own permit admin they could just bury the cost of the permit in their operations. Under the old Quantified Matrix each club had its own permit “cost” and that was the only amount the club would have out and not the whole price. With online permit sales that has pretty much been eliminated. 

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