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POLICE OUT TO MUFFLE MODIFIED SNOWMOBILE EXHAUST SYSTEMS


PISTON LAKE CRUISER

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2 hours ago, 02Sled said:

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

 

You can't remove modify or render inoperative the original

So what if you have your stock exhaust ceramic coated to prevent it from rusting? Under the above you could be given a fine since technically you modified it? I've always found the wording of the MSVA a bit questionable regarding after market exhaust. 

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Also in case anyone reading this snags up a ticket? Remember, FIGHT EVERY TICKET IN COURT, its your right after all and the cops are not the final say as above mentioned its not so "black and white" as they want you to believe.

 

Even a registration sticker, FIGHT IT. Every single time

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7 minutes ago, crispy said:

Also in case anyone reading this snags up a ticket? Remember, FIGHT EVERY TICKET IN COURT, its your right after all and the cops are not the final say as above mentioned its not so "black and white" as they want you to believe.

 

Even a registration sticker, FIGHT IT. Every single time

It's a $110 fine.. you must put a lot lower value on your time than I do on mine. While I don't have to worry about a ticket for this, if I had to travel from Toronto to Parry Sound about 5 hours round trip, gas, wear and tear on the truck plus my time in court,  knowing that I would likely come out on the losing end of.... I'm not doing all that for $110.

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10 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

It's a $110 fine.. you must put a lot lower value on your time than I do on mine. While I don't have to worry about a ticket for this, if I had to travel from Toronto to Parry Sound about 5 hours round trip, gas, wear and tear on the truck plus my time in court,  knowing that I would likely come out on the losing end of.... I'm not doing all that for $110.

 

It aint about the money its about your rights vs the law which is worth WAY more than a 110 bucks. Stand up for yourselves and exercise your right to due process, we are so very fortunate to have these rights I advise you all to use them at every opportunity so cops dont abuse them.

 

Again my first post, look at my initial comments, and advice. Dont dig in twisted on me now and start a shart storm

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4 hours ago, crispy said:

Cans are stupid, period. Too loud exhausts are not for trail riding.

 

I dont think this is a major police issue though. We all know who puts cans and pipes on their sleds and why and lets face it, we were all young once too. The more we make this a legal issue and go all absolute on the problem the more we drive the youth towards rebellion. Think long haired hippes vs get a haircut and a job parenting. We need to encourage respectful behavior by FIRST being respectful ourselves. We will NOT serve any public net benefit by going totalitarian my way or the highway with anyone. Once you remove your approval and alienate a person or group what do they have to lose by cranking things up a few notches WORSE? Nothing.

 

Please be smart and set a good example and try and educate instead of regulate.

 

Remember, there will always be some issue to deal with. Its never going to go away or completely be gone EVER. How we handle and deal with these issues is what defines who we are, and how are future will be. Tolerance and education are tied together in perpetuity

 

And if you read the postings on Faceplant, you know the ones carrying on about being able to use cans would be the 1st to complain about trail closures...

 

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12 minutes ago, crispy said:

 

It aint about the money its about your rights vs the law which is worth WAY more than a 110 bucks. Stand up for yourselves and exercise your right to due process, we are so very fortunate to have these rights I advise you all to use them at every opportunity so cops dont abuse them.

 

Again my first post, look at my initial comments, and advice. Dont dig in twisted on me now and start a shart storm

You're right about the money.... Like I said it's the value of my time and given the likelihood of beating it versus the time which would be a very long full day. It just isn't worth it to me. If I anticipated a good chance of beating the ticket I may reconsider but still not likely to invest that much time for it.

 

Many would have to tell their employer they need the day off. If someone told me to fight a ticket, I'd say good luck if I could afford to let them go for the day and make sure they understood they are burning a vacation day as well.

 

I don't know of any company that their policies for time off includes fighting a ticket.

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Could be opening up a Labour rights case with that attitude. I've taken time off work to fight a 16 dollar parking ticket before with no problem. Each employee stands on their own merits and each person has to decide to exercise their rights to fight tickets but employers forcing people to violate their rights to due process? Lawyer up if anyone faces that, im sure this will quickly go away

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24 minutes ago, revrnd said:

 

And if you read the postings on Faceplant, you know the ones carrying on about being able to use cans would be the 1st to complain about trail closures...

 

yeah well troublesome attitudes are the problem everywhere. We dont cure troublesome attitudes by beating them up so to speak. Vilent kids get worse when you give them the strap which is why we dont encourage corporal punishment anymore. Think about it, I know all sorts of dudes with no real life to speak of. No GF, No wife, No kids, great at work so have money and then go all extreme "screrw it all" on the weekends which they balance themselves out with. Its that or the other kind who are all dark and introverted and can end up offing themselves. These people dont need police hassles, they need an opportunity to grow and LEARN how to be better people. Soon as normies start giving them attention for loud cans they only get louder and when they get attention for whining about trail conditions they scream more often etc. The more we try and censor and coerce these people to behave as we wish they would the less likely they ever will because they will resent everyone and everything and this can make them very dangerous with drink/drug driving carelessness etc because they feel they have nothing left to lose and little to live for anyways and so on and so on.

 

Educating people how to behave better takes leadership, understanding, AND INCLUSIVENESS along with heaps of patience. So many parents out there who are selfish dual workers and throw money at kids as if its love and on and on and on. Anyways I could write books on the subject but all I can say for certain is the few people Ive known who have offed themselves could have easily been saved with a lot less judgement and cop hassle flying their way. I managed to save one dude who tried three times to off himself just by giving him a job and providing a work space where there was no drug or booze enablers around. Sometimes its easy but whips and chains seldom if ever rehabilitate anyone. Yet another reason I am so against this increased police state BS

 

Its totally dumb

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5 hours ago, Fox said:

My personal option aside: I have always personally considered the section regarding muffler’s unclear within the Snowmobile Act.  Maybe it is just me but what part says aftermarket muffler is not allowed.  I see where a straight pipe can’t be installed.

Equipment requirements

Muffler in working order

18 (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation and no person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon the motorized snow vehicle.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (1).

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

Unless the muffler is part of the motor vehicle safety act, like the kill switch and brakes are, then it is not included and aftermarket exhaust that is as quiet at stock would be just fine. The thing is, if you run a quiet exhaust, stock or aftermarket, then you will be fine. Run a loud exhaust and you should rightfully expect a fine if the cops stop you. Those loud cans are considered hollywood mufflers are all know what a bypass gutted and straight pipe are.

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5 hours ago, 02Sled said:

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

 

You can't remove modify or render inoperative the original

Show me where a muffler is listed in the motor vehicle safety act. I cannot find it but may have missed it. If it is not in there, then we must defer to the first part of the MSVA section that outlines the type of exhausts that are illegal. If you have a quiet aftermarket exhaust and get a fine you would win in court  unless they can show that the muffle was a hollywood type...very vague but I am sure a stock versus the questionable muffle on video with a db meter showing them to be the same would solve the question in court. the crowb would not be prepared in any way to prove your guilt unless it was loud, and if police do not use a db meter they will have a hard time proving it. db meters are the way to go.

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1 hour ago, crispy said:

Could be opening up a Labour rights case with that attitude. I've taken time off work to fight a 16 dollar parking ticket before with no problem. Each employee stands on their own merits and each person has to decide to exercise their rights to fight tickets but employers forcing people to violate their rights to due process? Lawyer up if anyone faces that, im sure this will quickly go away

Dream on. Your employer is not obligated to pay you while you go to court to fight a ticket. Nobody is violating your rights to due process. You can take the day without pay or if you want to be paid use a vacation day. Especially if the employee is someone who is regularly wanting days off to fight tickets.

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8 hours ago, Fox said:

Ya. I guess that is it 02,   Guess that could also mean, handlebar risers, any aftermarket skis or carbides might fall into the same boat.

 

I guess I just like the idea of measuring the sound level vs saying no aftermarket.

Section 18 refers to Muffler/Exhaust subsection 1,2 is the Act.  

 

No grey area

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8 minutes ago, Yukon Cornelious said:

Section 18 refers to Muffler/Exhaust subsection 1,2 is the Act.  

 

No grey area

The act being the motor vehicle safety act. Now, could you please link me up to the section in that act that mentions mufflers? I searched and could not find it..so, very grey indeed.

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5 minutes ago, zoso said:

The act being the motor vehicle safety act. Now, could you please link me up to the section in that act that mentions mufflers? I searched and could not find it..so, very grey indeed.

 

I think they do that on purpose.... bend the rules to their advantage... 

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6 minutes ago, zoso said:

The act being the motor vehicle safety act. Now, could you please link me up to the section in that act that mentions mufflers? I searched and could not find it..so, very grey indeed.

The reference you are ponting out refers to the National Safety Mark when it is registered. That sticker makes Subsection 2 law.

 

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

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Equipment requirements

Muffler in working order

18 (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation and no person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon the motorized snow vehicle.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (1).

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

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subsection 2 has nothing to do with subsection 1 above 

 

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58 minutes ago, Yukon Cornelious said:

The reference you are ponting out refers to the National Safety Mark when it is registered. That sticker makes Subsection 2 law.

 

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

No it does not. It is clearly stating that any part on the sled that was required by Motor Vehicle safety act( https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulations/acts-1993c16.htm) found in the link, cannot be altered. That begs the question, is the muffler listed as one of these parts in the MVSA. I do not see it there, and you seem to be unable to provide me a link to where it may be. I say that aftermarket exhausts are perfectly legal, just as they are in cars and trucks, however the stipulated types of exhausts mentioned in the MSVA are not, those being straight pipes, by passes, cut outs, gutted, and the grey area hollywood muffler.

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53 minutes ago, northstar said:

Equipment requirements

Muffler in working order

18 (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation and no person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon the motorized snow vehicle.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (1).

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

can you please show me where the MVSA states anything about a muffler.

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Just now, manotickmike said:

Hollywood muffler?

 Was this written in 1956?

Well that is the kicker, it is a grey area where the court would have to determine if any aftermarket muffler with baffles was to be deemed a hollywood muffler or not. It sure is not up to a cop.

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3 minutes ago, zoso said:

Well that is the kicker, it is a grey area where the court would have to determine if any aftermarket muffler with baffles was to be deemed a hollywood muffler or not. It sure is not up to a cop.

Just shoot me.  That's another time that I agree with Zoso :lol:

 

I have researched this a few years ago, and I also cannot find any reference to exhaust in the MVSA.

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8 minutes ago, sledjunk said:

Just shoot me.  That's another time that I agree with Zoso :lol:

 

I have researched this a few years ago, and I also cannot find any reference to exhaust in the MVSA.

Simply Shocking I tell ya!!

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I asked google and this is what i got..../.

What is a Hollywood muffler?
A glasspack is a type of automobile muffler in which the exhaust gas passes straight through the center of the muffler. ... The distinctive features of the Glasspack mufflers are traditional red powder coating, original straight-through construction and fiberglass inner tube, and its distinctive classic sound.
 
 
My muffler clearly is not a hollywood muffler. 
 
I have the second quietest aftermarket can on the market and it is not a mountain can. which i would agree is a hollywood muffler since 90% of the mountain cans are a tiny glass pack.
 
 
 
Also nearly everyone has a smart phone i know it won't be as precise as a thousand dollar db meter but it would get you in the ball park there is tons of free db meter apps.
 
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