The BIG decision, 850, 900 turbo, or Sidewinder?

[crispy]

 

I am tilted heavily towards the 850 because I love two strokes, until they blow up. I've been stuck in that bliss/hate relationship for a long time while my four strokes buddies are all zipping along 4x over the mileage until their chassis lose their rivets with nothing more than an oil change. Plus those lake runs blasting on by.

 

Kinda makes a guy sit back and think hmmmmm?

 

I do not like that numb throttle crap that the Doo 4 strokes have though. There is SERIOUSLY something wrong with their tuning or something. My trucks are drive by wire and while not quite as responsive as a cable driven throttle its very close. Those four stroke ski doos are on some sort of granny governor and its so messed up literally for that reason alone? I am very reluctant to consider a Ski Doo 4 stroke. My guess is the 900 ACE turbo will be the same. If anyone at the Doo camp ever reads this what in the heck are you guys doing here? Its bad.

 

Then theres the Sidewinder. Beastly weapon. Better not plop a ski edge in the soft stuff, I get that but that performance. That throttle response. That Yamaha reliability. That performance

 

Chewing on these three for now. Not rushing, probably snow check but thinking.

[Techdenis007]

I'd be all over the 900T if I could afford one. I believe it'll change the way you think about Skidoo 4 strokes. 

 

Btw their clutching sucks for most part on the bulk of their products. My 800 will now outpull the 850 with just a clutching adjustment. 

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

Sidewinder and you will never look back.

[tireless]

Had sidewinder tunnel buckles , suspension can't beat xrs. I 've owned two Yamaha and 20 doos. 

[signfan]

I love the throttle by wire.  Leave it in sport mode and it works great.  I don't know what everyone is whining about.  Sure don't miss having throttle thumb at the end of a 400 km day.  I've been very happy with the 900 ace.  It's no rocket, but is a great trail sled.  The turbo will only improve on that.

[crispy]

Yeah clutching I can appreciate is never really all that dialed out of the box but tuning is not something I'm a big fan of. I've done all the pipes and engine porting mods and tuned turbo vehicles and while it does make more power, it throws reliability out of the picture and in my experience once you start the power mod process it seems to require constant fiddling/tweaking to keep running properly and this is something I avoid now. I leave engines stock, work clutches a bit, add some traction aids and thats it.

 

As for the Ski-Doo throttle? Its a big issue for me and I can understand why its not an issue at all for some. When I blip that throttle? I want that hit and I want it hard. Thats what Im used to and a HUGE component of riding pleasure for me and the Doo wire drive is a million miles off this path. The way im looking at it is add a turbo and some lag? Probably going to get worse. If not for this worry the Ski Doo would get my dollars handily due to the chassis.

 

I also have to admit that Im not really jumping around in the saddle like I used to and catching air is not in my interest anymore plus I rode a friends Apex and found it pretty decent for what it was. In a newer and better chassis with that sweet turbo engine. Im thinking I could probably live with it, to get that awesome power delivery.

 

If Doo can get that snap back into their game with the four strokes ( this HAS to be a tuning issue ) and add a few ponies to the 900 I think id not need this thread. I did read last year about that bent Sidewinder tunnel issue, any update on that?

[Turbo Doo]

If you want that snap, clutch the 850 and a way you go.. Either the Doo or Poo 850 will Doo.. .. With the 900 T, clutch it, and flash it and a way yah go.....

IMO.. the sidewinder is fast with a great motor, but i believe the 900 T is just as good of a motor, in a far better chassis...

 

Theres PLENTY of 850s out there that have close to 10k on them, no issues. I put 4k on my 18 850, no issues, no belt issues.. its all in how you ride them and treat them...

[skidoo rob]

3 hours ago, crispy said:

 

I am tilted heavily towards the 850 because I love two strokes, until they blow up. I've been stuck in that bliss/hate relationship for a long time while my four strokes buddies are all zipping along 4x over the mileage until their chassis lose their rivets with nothing more than an oil change. Plus those lake runs blasting on by.

 

Kinda makes a guy sit back and think hmmmmm?

 

I do not like that numb throttle crap that the Doo 4 strokes have though. There is SERIOUSLY something wrong with their tuning or something. My trucks are drive by wire and while not quite as responsive as a cable driven throttle its very close. Those four stroke ski doos are on some sort of granny governor and its so messed up literally for that reason alone? I am very reluctant to consider a Ski Doo 4 stroke. My guess is the 900 ACE turbo will be the same. If anyone at the Doo camp ever reads this what in the heck are you guys doing here? Its bad.

 

Then theres the Sidewinder. Beastly weapon. Better not plop a ski edge in the soft stuff, I get that but that performance. That throttle response. That Yamaha reliability. That performance

 

Chewing on these three for now. Not rushing, probably snow check but thinking.

 

I guess it all depends on where you ride. If you ride the Muskoka's, dont even think about the Sidewinder as the weight will kill you. That Yamaha engine is impressive and reliable as hell.

[northstar]

I understand the comparison of the sidewinder and the 850 doo even the 800 doo . But how can you even think that the 900 T could possibly be considered in that group . The 900 is a great motor and add a turbo for that needed extra power and it's even better, but just won't be at the finish line . You really cant beat a lite weight 2 stroke the ride and handling is fantastic, you can ride all day without fatigue . Problem is injector oil and fractional engine life compared to a 4 stroke . 

10,000 miles compared to 100,000 miles if the sled will hold together .

[02Sled]

30 minutes ago, skidoo rob said:

 

I guess it all depends on where you ride. If you ride the Muskoka's, dont even think about the Sidewinder as the weight will kill you. That Yamaha engine is impressive and reliable as hell.

My wife and I have the Cat sleds with the Yamaha engines and ride in Muskoka with some pretty twisty trails. Love the 4 stroke engine. At the end of the day neither of us have complaints about the weight. Maybe if you are one of those who have a need to fly through the corners and turns as fast as you possibly can. We like to see the scenery. Too each their own but when we ask others who are focussed on getting A to B as fast as humanly possible, "did you see those 4 deer just off the trail?" they say what deer. 4 stroke all the way.... until we started riding 4 strokes we never realized how much those 2 strokes "stink". Now following someone on a 2 stroke we notice the smell and are happy not to have it permeate our snowmobile suits as well.

[Cuyuna]

All new EPA compliant 2 strokes are not getting enough oil, plain and simple - no matter what the factories are saying (Imho) You need to run more oil through them to get long life. With the advent of computer controlled oil pumps, changes in fuel injection etc., it is getting more difficult to increase oiling. Just my 2 cents... rounded off to a nickel.

[Poo Man]

14 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

My wife and I have the Cat sleds with the Yamaha engines and ride in Muskoka with some pretty twisty trails. Love the 4 stroke engine. At the end of the day neither of us have complaints about the weight. Maybe if you are one of those who have a need to fly through the corners and turns as fast as you possibly can. We like to see the scenery. Too each their own but when we ask others who are focussed on getting A to B as fast as humanly possible, "did you see those 4 deer just off the trail?" they say what deer. 4 stroke all the way.... until we started riding 4 strokes we never realized how much those 2 strokes "stink". Now following someone on a 2 stroke we notice the smell and are happy not to have it permeate our snowmobile suits as well.

I find the same thing. The "weight" issue seems to be non existent to me, but I'm a heavy rider. The throttle issue also is easy to overcome. There's so much torque down low that you ease into the throttle for a better take off instead of mashing the flipper down. Pop a pb80 primary on there, and it's even better

[02Sled]

13 minutes ago, Poo Man said:

I find the same thing. The "weight" issue seems to be non existent to me, but I'm a heavy rider. The throttle issue also is easy to overcome. There's so much torque down low that you ease into the throttle for a better take off instead of mashing the flipper down. Pop a pb80 primary on there, and it's even better

Like you I'm a heavy rider however my wife isn't. If I would expect anyone to have sore arms at the end of the day it would be her however she doesn't. Actually the only thing she finds after a long day is her neck from the weight of the helmet bobbling her head around a bit.

[Blake G]

When I own a two stroke I can't help feeling as though I'm riding a ticking time bomb. This fall I traded my 800 Enduro for an identical used 1200 Enduro. I'm thinking it's time to slow down a bit on the twisties. Having said that, if cost is not a big factor, I think an 850 Skidoo or Polaris, traded every year, would provide the best all round riding experience for people interested in high mileage days at quick speeds.

[Baylaker]

I’ve always owned Yamaha sleds. Last season I switched to a brand new 850 renegade X and did not like it as much as my vipers. Yes, everybody knows skidoo makes the best rear suspension, but it’s not like it’s a world of difference compared to the viper/sidewinder chassis. They’re pretty close imo. Plus you get the best engine in the business! My oil line popped off the oil pump on my 850 around 400kms, spraying oil all over my clutches. knew of a couple others that went up in flames. Skidoo claims you can go all season on one tank of oil....what does that tell you? They’re starved of oil! And that’s why they meet current EPA standards...they don’t smoke near as much as the older iron. You can still smell the 2 stroke, but you can hardly see it. 

 

Anyways, I’m back on a viper! Seating position is way better on the cat chassis as well. I also ride muskoka area and have no problem in the tight twisties and can hang with all those 2 strokes if I feel like it. 

 

If if you do decide to go with the Yamaha, just ditch the tuner skis. Don’t even waste your time trying to make them work, been there done that, they just don’t work. They’re junk! Good luck with the new purchase.

[Big Pussy]

3 hours ago, Baylaker said:

If if you do decide to go with the Yamaha, just ditch the tuner skis. Don’t even waste your time trying to make them work, been there done that, they just don’t work. They’re junk! Good luck with the new purchase. 

You could just buy a Thundercat and have the real thing including good skis and my cost less money.  Now you could have the novelty 3 setting shocks from the handlebar if too lazy to change the setting. (If anyone does).

[Techdenis007]

8 hours ago, Cuyuna said:

. With the advent of computer controlled oil pumps, changes in fuel injection etc., it is getting more difficult to increase oiling. Just my 2 cents... rounded off to a nickel.

 

I learned that it is much easier to do than you would expect. Most dealers don't know how, and probably wouldn't do it, just in case something goes wrong. My 800 is out of warranty so I'm going to increase pump output a couple of notches. BTW as it is now, I'm getting 800+ km on a tank of oil before the light comes on. 

 

Turbo lag? The turbo is 3 inches from the head on the manifold. I don't think it'll be an issue. 

 

Mention of the throttle mode, for riding yes just leave it in Sport mode. When mucking around a parking lot or loading the sled, normal or eco mode is very pleasant to prevent accidents. 

 

By the time you get it broken in, someone will have worked out a good clutch kit to make it really work. 

[Baylaker]

I’m trying cat skis this season. Supposedly a lot of viper guys like them. About an inch wider than the tuners, and a single keel design that is taller. Looks like they’ll work great!

 

The girlfriends sled has the fox qs3s, but I think once we find a setting she likes, it’s highly unlikely it’ll change...unless I take it out lol. 

 

Althought the iAct would be nice!

[gobills]

1 hour ago, Denis007 said:

 

I learned that it is much easier to do than you would expect. Most dealers don't know how, and probably wouldn't do it, just in case something goes wrong. My 800 is out of warranty so I'm going to increase pump output a couple of notches. BTW as it is now, I'm getting 800+ km on a tank of oil before the light comes on. 

 

Turbo lag? The turbo is 3 inches from the head on the manifold. I don't think it'll be an issue. 

 

Mention of the throttle mode, for riding yes just leave it in Sport mode. When mucking around a parking lot or loading the sled, normal or eco mode is very pleasant to prevent accidents. 

 

By the time you get it broken in, someone will have worked out a good clutch kit to make it really work. 

Denis is this an easy thing to do up the oil usage??  Or something that requires a computer program?

[Micar]

10 hours ago, 02Sled said:

My wife and I have the Cat sleds with the Yamaha engines and ride in Muskoka with some pretty twisty trails. Love the 4 stroke engine. At the end of the day neither of us have complaints about the weight. Maybe if you are one of those who have a need to fly through the corners and turns as fast as you possibly can. We like to see the scenery. Too each their own but when we ask others who are focussed on getting A to B as fast as humanly possible, "did you see those 4 deer just off the trail?" they say what deer. 4 stroke all the way.... until we started riding 4 strokes we never realized how much those 2 strokes "stink". Now following someone on a 2 stroke we notice the smell and are happy not to have it permeate our snowmobile suits as well

Agree with this 100%.

Guess we shouldn't ride from home. 

Four strokes and long tracks in Muskoka! What were we thinking!!!

Love my Cat and my wife loves her XF7000. 

[Techdenis007]

10 hours ago, gobills said:

Denis is this an easy thing to do up the oil usage??  Or something that requires a computer program?

 

Needs the dealership computer and program. I don't think many dealerships would be willing to do it though. Not that they even know how to adjust it to give more oil.  Highly classified info that was leaked on the BRP internal forum. 

[gobills]

23 minutes ago, Denis007 said:

 

Needs the dealership computer and program. I don't think many dealerships would be willing to do it though. Not that they even know how to adjust it to give more oil.  Highly classified info that was leaked on the BRP internal forum. 

Poo is the same needs digital wrench.  So you can do this yourself up the usage?

[northstar]

1 hour ago, Denis007 said:

 

Needs the dealership computer and program. I don't think many dealerships would be willing to do it though. Not that they even know how to adjust it to give more oil.  Highly classified info that was leaked on the BRP internal forum. 

now I understand the 007 designation 

[Techdenis007]

3 hours ago, gobills said:

Poo is the same needs digital wrench.  So you can do this yourself up the usage?

 

Yes, very easy. As easy as connecting the laptop and making a small modification. 

 

 

2 hours ago, northstar said:

now I understand the 007 designation 

 

Lol !!  I caught the slip, and privately chatted with the gentleman about it, verified his source - a recently deceased upper level service support tech at Ski-Doo.  I have no reason to doubt him. 

 

I suggested he edit his comment with the slip and he quickly did so not everyone knows about it.  Its not the kind of thing that the EPA likes reading about. 

[catinental couch]

The more info you can keep from the bureaucracies, the better.