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mike37

thank you MTO and the lawyer's for this one

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Well   just got this from the MTO   if a club has a trail on the side of a highway anywhere in Ontario  there is a hole new set of rules  just come out  .  From what I understand  first we have to get permission  from every land owner  that its ok to have a trail going along the highway in front of there land  then we have to go to all utilities to get permission to have a trail on the side if the hwy  and  also permission  from any town ship that the trail  is in  ,next is to check with any  Indian  nation  near the hwy   that you have a trail on   .    I have not seen the paper work  yet  but  some have  and it is coming  for sure  WOW   what next  we will not be able  to have a trail cross any MTO  hwy   then the townships follow this lead  no trails on town side road or crossing   this is big   lets hope the ofsc  is on this one   ???????????

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This has been around for a bit. D9 had to "remove" two , one on Hwy 6 north of Mount forest and the other on Hwy 21 west of Owen Sound. Its a 44 page application, don't for get the "environmental impact portion. Aboriginal input was within 25 miles I believe. It was a "new" manager in the London office who was....  ( well , you know)!!!

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31 minutes ago, Faceman said:

This has been around for a bit. D9 had to "remove" two , one on Hwy 6 north of Mount forest and the other on Hwy 21 west of Owen Sound. Its a 44 page application, don't for get the "environmental impact portion. Aboriginal input was within 25 miles I believe. It was a "new" manager in the London office who was....  ( well , you know)!!!

Why did they have to remove the trail? What was the reasoning?

Giving the adjacent neighbors a say is a little much in my view.  They should have an opportunity to comment at most.  Not  authority to make a yes or no decision.  It's public land.  They don't own it.  Existing trail should be grandfathered as well in my opinion.

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3 hours ago, Wildbill said:

where did this happen ?

We have a few sections like this.  The most notable for us is the section along Hwy 12 to Beaverton and areas beyond.  Hwy 12 in this area has a very wide ROW to allow for future expansion and we run along.  If enforced provincially, this will affect many sections of trail and significantly harm our system and the businesses that support us along those highways.

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I think in our specific case it was "new broom sweeps clean". Thankfully only the two, one was a PITA for the GBE club and the other not a real big deal. Not sure in either case why they would care. Or we could have filled out the 44 page application I guess

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On 9/9/2018 at 11:09 PM, mike37 said:

Well   just got this from the MTO   if a club has a trail on the side of a highway anywhere in Ontario  there is a hole new set of rules  just come out  .  From what I understand  first we have to get permission  from every land owner  that its ok to have a trail going along the highway in front of there land  then we have to go to all utilities to get permission to have a trail on the side if the hwy  and  also permission  from any town ship that the trail  is in  ,next is to check with any  Indian  nation  near the hwy   that you have a trail on   .    I have not seen the paper work  yet  but  some have  and it is coming  for sure  WOW   what next  we will not be able  to have a trail cross any MTO  hwy   then the townships follow this lead  no trails on town side road or crossing   this is big   lets hope the ofsc  is on this one   ???????????

You say "just got this from the MTO" and "I have not seen the paper work yet". Which is it? Can you scan it or share a link?

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On 9/11/2018 at 9:19 AM, Doogirl69 said:

You say "just got this from the MTO" and "I have not seen the paper work yet". Which is it? Can you scan it or share a link?

We were alerted by our district admin, but the paperwork has not been distributed.

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18 minutes ago, bbakernbay said:

Please post once it is available for public distribution.

 

This has the potential to wreak havoc on many Trail systems.

 

I find this stuff really depressing and it makes me want to get out of the sport....or maybe move further north :D

 

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1 hour ago, Poo Man said:

I find this stuff really depressing and it makes me want to get out of the sport....or maybe move further north :D

 

X2 here as well

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On 9/13/2018 at 10:58 AM, sledjunk said:

We were alerted by our district admin, but the paperwork has not been distributed.

I trust that this matter will be raised/discussed at the AGM.

 

Looking forward to hear more information.

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5 hours ago, skidoo rob said:

Unless Dougie Ford is a snowmobiler, good luck with that one...

 

He supports the tourism industry in Ontario. I do not know the reason the MTO is doing this, what is the goal on their behalf do we know?

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18 hours ago, crispy said:

 

He supports the tourism industry in Ontario. I do not know the reason the MTO is doing this, what is the goal on their behalf do we know?

 

It's too bad that the OFSC couldn't have a sit down w/ the pertinent ministries @ the same time & attempt to get them all on the same page.

 

Dealing w/ a work permit in our area was 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

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Yep. Right hand, left hand syndrome. The different bureaucracies don't talk to each other because each one thinks they are right and everybody else is wrong.

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14 hours ago, revrnd said:

 

It's too bad that the OFSC couldn't have a sit down w/ the pertinent ministries @ the same time & attempt to get them all on the same page.

 

 

That's why you need a full-time government lobbyist.

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13 hours ago, catinental couch said:

Yep. Right hand, left hand syndrome. The different bureaucracies don't talk to each other because each one thinks they are right and everybody else is wrong.

 

The crazy in all of this is they target growth strategies within these bureaucracies. If thats not completely backwards to public SERVICE then what is? The MTO for some time now in kahoots with OPP and others have been intentionally trying to make life harder for more citizens and create more opportunities for officers to call for more work so they can hire more officers. Thats not public service thats public abuse and who holds these people to account? This is the big issue by and large they run wild

 

 

Its so bad even Firefighters too they are CRAZED with turf conflicts and power games. Training centers made for controlled burns and whatnot all funded by the taxpayer are completely off limits for other halls to train at. First truck on the scene controls the scene even if they are far less capable. Theres a lot of ego stroking at work that really doesnt serve the public interest one bit

 

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I totally agree crispy. I went to a meeting this past Wednesday where the OPP and the MTO each had a speaker on safety and regulatory issues. Any questions from the audience that were outside the parameters of the presentations but still within the subject line were either ignored or completely sidestepped. What was managed to be interpreted was that if this law doesn't fit to charge you with something then there is another law that is a worse charge against you that they can hit you with. The biggest perception ( I hate that word ) was that all these laws are subject to the individual officers' interpretation so one way or another, you will end up in court. If the court doesn't think there is a case against you then the officer just doesn't show up in court and the charge is withdrawn. You still have to waste your time to go to court though. In many cases, the set fine is low enough that people just pay it because it is too costly to fight it.

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14 hours ago, catinental couch said:

Yep. Right hand, left hand syndrome. The different bureaucracies don't talk to each other because each one thinks they are right and everybody else is wrong.

And then in the case of the MNR, it would appear that each district office has its own agenda.

 

I've read online where clubs in northern Ontario have been able to reroute trails in short periods of time. We're dealing w/ an reroute over the length of 100 acres of Crown Land. Process will have taken almost 3 years when the trail opens.

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9 hours ago, revrnd said:

And then in the case of the MNR, it would appear that each district office has its own agenda.

 

I've read online where clubs in northern Ontario have been able to reroute trails in short periods of time. We're dealing w/ an reroute over the length of 100 acres of Crown Land. Process will have taken almost 3 years when the trail opens.

Sort of true on trails with MNR.

If it's moving a trail from one logging road to another it's just a matter of grooming the trail, also allowed to get away with minor brushing (maintence) under our district work permit.

Now if your talking a bridge or new trail it takes years.

 

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Not discussed.  Still trying to get it.

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