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MOTS deadline September 6/2018


Greggie

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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:05 PM, zoso said:

Have you heard of the Hells Angels? Join that club and your Harley becomes the clubs, sounds like the OFSC took a page out of their book.

 

????? If only the OFSC was run as smooth as the H.A. And, groomers were always property of OFSC.

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42 minutes ago, Faceman said:

????? If only the OFSC was run as smooth as the H.A. And, groomers were always property of OFSC.

There are lots of groomers bought with fundraising money or part fundraising and part permit money. The clubs are incoperated and they are assets in the books. Groomers are used as lateral against bank liens. Not every clubs has the opinion that their assets belong to the Ofsc. Don’t think that all assets will be moved to the Districts by September 6...

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7 hours ago, Greggie said:

There are lots of groomers bought with fundraising money or part fundraising and part permit money. The clubs are incoperated and they are assets in the books. Groomers are used as lateral against bank liens. Not every clubs has the opinion that their assets belong to the Ofsc. Don’t think that all assets will be moved to the Districts by September 6...

it matters not, the fact is, every groomer is the property of the OFSC no matter how it was purchased. there is no way to say the funds that bought it did not originate from the sale of permits.

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just going through this now  were  part of a  grant  that we bought two mules   now they say they are  theirs  not sure  how this  works we have to prove  it to them not right

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I would like somebody to prove to me that the OFSC owns the assets. Other than some unsupported statements from Paul S and ExComm what is there to support the claim. I would offer the following as substantiation that the clubs own the assets 

1) the OFSC claims ownership of the assets under their agreement with MTO. Every permit selling entity in the federation is party to that same agreement by way of the TPPA agreement. every PSE is required to sign a TPPA every year as part of the membership renewal requirements. The permits were sold in the name of the club and under the agreement with MTO the club gets to keep the sale proceeds. The club then makes expenditures according to schedule of permissible investments (Sch E). Therefore the assets are the clubs, not the OFSC. There is a caveat to that in that if the club ceases operations they must submit an asset disposal plan for approval but it only applies if the club ceases operation. This is what happened when D16 shut down. 

2) if the OFSC owns the assets, why have they not been recorded on Federstion Balance Sheets (except for the last 3 years).  Their own financial statements do not record any interest in the assets because they have none except in very limited circumstances. 

3) if the OFSC owns the assets, how can a club transfer them to the district under MOTS? Why would you need an MOU at all unless you knew your claim was bogus to begin with. 

 

 

 

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On July 3, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Nutter said:

 

 

Yes everything still belongs to the OFSC John, but clubs will have to invoice the district if they want to recoup something for their efforts in maintenance and repairs . Once you invoice and receive payment for a service it changes the rules of everything, regarding liabilities and whole host of other things.  Can you imagine once the Ontario College of Trades finds out that sled club volunteers are doing mechanical work and invoicing and getting paid for that work.   I can do the brakes on my own car and my insurance will cover me and my car, but you pay me to do your brakes and ........ 

 

 

Apparently the province has requested for 2 tiers of financial accountability, being that the only ones doing transactions with permit dollars are the OFSC and Districts.  

 

 

Rick. Invoicing certainly does change everything but for $hit$ $akes don't even think about OCOT getting involved in the fray. Some will argue that the volunteers need mechanics licences to work on groomers who would be under OCOT rule while others say that ORV's do not require OCOT sanctioned licensed technicians to do maintenance and repairs. 

As far as you doing safety related repairs to over the road vehicles in your back yard and charging for it, stay out of that can of worms. I have spent years arguing with them over that point alone and the admits will probably close this thread about January over all the arguments and hundreds of pages of wasted forum space. Believe me. Just don't go there.

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18 hours ago, Big Pete said:

I would like somebody to prove to me that the OFSC owns the assets. Other than some unsupported statements from Paul S and ExComm what is there to support the claim. I would offer the following as substantiation that the clubs own the assets 

1) the OFSC claims ownership of the assets under their agreement with MTO. Every permit selling entity in the federation is party to that same agreement by way of the TPPA agreement. every PSE is required to sign a TPPA every year as part of the membership renewal requirements. The permits were sold in the name of the club and under the agreement with MTO the club gets to keep the sale proceeds. The club then makes expenditures according to schedule of permissible investments (Sch E). Therefore the assets are the clubs, not the OFSC. There is a caveat to that in that if the club ceases operations they must submit an asset disposal plan for approval but it only applies if the club ceases operation. This is what happened when D16 shut down. 

2) if the OFSC owns the assets, why have they not been recorded on Federstion Balance Sheets (except for the last 3 years).  Their own financial statements do not record any interest in the assets because they have none except in very limited circumstances. 

3) if the OFSC owns the assets, how can a club transfer them to the district under MOTS? Why would you need an MOU at all unless you knew your claim was bogus to begin with. 

 

 

 

That caveat is the the killer. The clubs must follow OFSC mandates to remain in ther OFSC, leave and they leave with nothing. So, legally speaking, the OFSC does not hold ownership of the asset, but they way it is set up they wiill dictate what happens to the asset or effectively take it if a club fails to follow the mandated rules. they may not have ownership, they sure as hell have control.

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