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northern cell phone/internet in jeopardy-maybe ofsc should lobby


slomo

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From CBC - "A small northern Ontario town west of Timmins is worried it could lose its cell phone and internet service............Services for Foleyet used to be provided by the province under the company name Ontera, but the company was sold to Bell in 2014.................There are a number of communities that are in the same situation, where they are dependent on a single provider for the internet and or cell phone, and the contracts will come up for renewal also and they may be facing the same fate..............Gogama, another northeastern town where Bell nearly pulled service until the province agreed to allow the company to use its infrastructure at a cost below market rate................."

 

Article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/foleyet-internet-cell-service-jeopardy-1.4646556

 

This should be an essential service, not only for the safety of sledders and other people in these underserved areas, but also for the various supporting businesses who need internet access to provide access to customers. It is obvious that OFSC should have a stake in this and should support any intiatives in continuing these services.

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Just look at what happens @ a business when they lose internet (Moneris for example) for transactions. The day we stopped in at Mikeys in Timmins someone took out a hydto/utility plow & they had lost their internet, cash sales only & no internet link for their service dep't.

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14 minutes ago, revrnd said:

Just look at what happens @ a business when they lose internet (Moneris for example) for transactions. The day we stopped in at Mikeys in Timmins someone took out a hydto/utility plow & they had lost their internet, cash sales only & no internet link for their service dep't.

Debit and credit transactions can be done without internet. Lots of places it is still a dial up to a phone number. Just like you can do banking on the phone still.

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This has nothing to do with the OFSC and they should stay out of it. Their mandate is to put trails on the ground. These won't be the only areas without cell service that the OFSC trails run thru. The OFSC  already promotes safe riding to the membership and using the OFSC trails is an offroad riding experience. The OFSC has enough fires burning they are having trouble controlling without taking on more work. We need to prioritize and this doesn't rate very high. While it might be important to the local population it doesnt mean much to the rest of the province. If snowmobilers feel strongly enough about this issue they should take it upon themselves to rally support instead of asking somebody else to do the work for them.

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2 hours ago, Nith Valley Sledder said:

This has nothing to do with the OFSC and they should stay out of it. Their mandate is to put trails on the ground. These won't be the only areas without cell service that the OFSC trails run thru. The OFSC  already promotes safe riding to the membership and using the OFSC trails is an offroad riding experience. The OFSC has enough fires burning they are having trouble controlling without taking on more work. We need to prioritize and this doesn't rate very high. While it might be important to the local population it doesnt mean much to the rest of the province*. If snowmobilers feel strongly enough about this issue they should take it upon themselves to rally support instead of asking somebody else to do the work for them**.

 

I would invite you to look at the big picture. Consider that sledding is vital to some of these communities in terms of commerce and social interaction. *If a business, such as a motel or restaurant in Folyette loses its internet presence, it will soon close down. A community shut off from the rest of the province due to the same, soon loses interest in participating with outsider activities, and you once again have no trail to or by Folyette.

 

**A simple letter of support from the OFSC to the appropriate government body / minister might at least remind those in government that Bell should be required to provide these services whether they take a loss or not, in return for those areas in which they make a huge profit. Internet access (cell phone coverage) has been recognized as an essential service all over the province.

 

The problem with the current OFSC marketing people is that they don't realize, or don't care,  that there are many beneficial partnerships between snowmobiling, business and government that have yet to be realized for the good of everyone.

 

 

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Internet and cell service are not essential to the survival of a business. Lots of small businesses do not have internet or websites today and they are even in more populous areas.

 

I f having internet access while snowmobiling is a necessity then we have a problem. From a safety perspective there are alternate solutions available. How did anyone manage to go snowmobiling in those areas before internet or cell phone.

 

It may be a tool/service that the community finds highly desirable but not a necessity.

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This is NOT an OFSC problem. This is a cellular service  problem.  One has Nothing to do with the other. 

 

There are enough options for internet without needing cellular usage. Cable, satellite, phone line.  

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1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

Internet and cell service are not essential to the survival of a business. Lots of small businesses do not have internet or websites today and they are even in more populous areas.

 

I f having internet access while snowmobiling is a necessity then we have a problem. From a safety perspective there are alternate solutions available. How did anyone manage to go snowmobiling in those areas before internet or cell phone.

 

It may be a tool/service that the community finds highly desirable but not a necessity.

Are you kidding me?  My business wouldn't be able to offer any meaningful support without either.  This is a key concern but little to do with the ofsc and should be a federal priority.  Good luck with that.

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36 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Are you kidding me?  My business wouldn't be able to offer any meaningful support without either.  This is a key concern but little to do with the ofsc and should be a federal priority.  Good luck with that.

You're marketing and business model are a lot different than the small town restaurant, motel, grocery store. You're dealing with a high tech environment. We are talking the small town of Foleyet west of Timmins. Population 177. Something tells me there isn't a whole lot of high tech industry in a town of 177 and 81 private dwellings. 60 of those 177 are over 60 and not likely heavy internet users or reliant on it. That leaves a total of 117 that may want to use it.

 

There are alternatives such as satellite for those that feel they need it. There are lots of small businesses that don't need internet to survive. Do you really believe that the local grocer in town needs internet. A local gas station/restaurant in Port Severn has a credit/debit machine. It works on dialup for authorization.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

You're marketing and business model are a lot different than the small town restaurant, motel, grocery store. You're dealing with a high tech environment. We are talking the small town of Foleyet west of Timmins. Population 177. Something tells me there isn't a whole lot of high tech industry in a town of 177 and 81 private dwellings. 60 of those 177 are over 60 and not likely heavy internet users or reliant on it. That leaves a total of 117 that may want to use it.

 

There are alternatives such as satellite for those that feel they need it. There are lots of small businesses that don't need internet to survive. Do you really believe that the local grocer in town needs internet. A local gas station/restaurant in Port Severn has a credit/debit machine. It works on dialup for authorization.

 

 

Everyone needs acces to broadband internet and cell.  That was one thing Harper was big on.  Your right those businesses don't need it to make transactions but don't expect businesses that do to spring up either.  Satellite doesn't really cut it either.

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wonder if it affects business hst remittance etc etc. statements. I know its mandatory that we do it online now 

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5 hours ago, slomo said:

 

I would invite you to look at the big picture. Consider that sledding is vital to some of these communities in terms of commerce and social interaction. *If a business, such as a motel or restaurant in Folyette loses its internet presence, it will soon close down. A community shut off from the rest of the province due to the same, soon loses interest in participating with outsider activities, and you once again have no trail to or by Folyette.

 

**A simple letter of support from the OFSC to the appropriate government body / minister might at least remind those in government that Bell should be required to provide these services whether they take a loss or not, in return for those areas in which they make a huge profit. Internet access (cell phone coverage) has been recognized as an essential service all over the province.

 

The problem with the current OFSC marketing people is that they don't realize, or don't care,  that there are many beneficial partnerships between snowmobiling, business and government that have yet to be realized for the good of everyone.

 

 

I don't disagree that the internet is important to the community. I just don't think it is something the OFSC should be concerning themselves with.

 

As far as partnerships with business I feel there are way too many northern (and southern) businesses leaching and profiting off the efforts of the snowmobile volunteers. Snowmobiling has given them a whole second season of profit. Most of them give back little to nothing to either the local club or the OFSC. I don't think the OFSC marketing people are missing out on anything with the local businesses. 

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There was life before internet, and you can get internet via satellite just aboot anywhere. 

Halfway Haven is on sat internet and phone. 

I had sat phone for <20 years. 

 

If you find it too dangerous to venture outside the wire, Shirley you can stay inside?

 

 

Then there is the fact that the town itself can doo something on it;s own.

The little burg that I frequent in Colorado has gotten together and installed some sort of remote server in their town. I don't know how it is served it'self - if it is sat linked or what?

The rates are likely higher than they are in the city, but _ that's just part of living outside the wire....

 

 

.

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54 minutes ago, Ox said:

There was life before internet, and you can get internet via satellite just aboot anywhere. 

Halfway Haven is on sat internet and phone. 

I had sat phone for <20 years. 

 

If you find it too dangerous to venture outside the wire, Shirley you can stay inside?

 

 

Then there is the fact that the town itself can doo something on it;s own.

The little burg that I frequent in Colorado has gotten together and installed some sort of remote server in their town. I don't know how it is served it'self - if it is sat linked or what?

The rates are likely higher than they are in the city, but _ that's just part of living outside the wire....

 

 

.

This may be the only way internet service can be provided in smaller communities. They buy their own dsl box and tie it to their local network or provide wireless. There are local communities in the south that still have no high speed internet. If i remember correctly the article was the issue with cel service. I understand a telco trying to maximize their value of their equipmemt so not providing services for a remote area may be a wise choice. Government needs to get involved and offer incentives for services and introduce more joint use towers between Bell, Telus and Rogers and other smaller providers.

Jerry

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The reason that snowmobiling is so successful in Quebec is that it is part of the fabric of life in that province...unlike here.....this has been accomplished by the recognition that many fingers belong to the same hand....the internet links on their maps to accomodation, hotels, servicing, tours, the Quebec C.A.A. has snowmobile retrieval service and insurance can be bought against helicopter rescue in the event of an accident.  The Quebec sledding governing body and government work hand to hand to provide funds from both federal and provincial sources.

 

A global vision of snowmobiling in Ontario incorporating partnerships with any related aspect, including internet and cell service,  would go a long way to striving to the same ideal. Better marketing is needed.

 

 

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On 5/6/2018 at 4:49 PM, 02Sled said:

You're marketing and business model are a lot different than the small town restaurant, motel, grocery store.

 

 

No they are not. Check what is being sold on Amazon and the type of entrepreneur who is selling it. Having had some experience in long distance trailering to the snow to smaller centers, it is very gratifying to find accomodation and other info with  useful websites which provides an over view of the establishment, how much things cost, and the ability to book or buy on line or by email. Your experience may differ.

 

 

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1 hour ago, slomo said:

No they are not. Check what is being sold on Amazon and the type of entrepreneur who is selling it. Having had some experience in long distance trailering to the snow to smaller centers, it is very gratifying to find accomodation and other info with  useful websites which provides an over view of the establishment, how much things cost, and the ability to book or buy on line or by email. Your experience may differ.

 

 

The nature of ACs business model, marketing, sales and customer support is indeed VASTLY different than that of a motel in a town of 177 with only 81 residences and only 117 of those are less than 60 years old. I would bet there isn't one technology based business in Foyelet

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9 hours ago, 02Sled said:

 I would bet there isn't one technology based business in Foyelet

With decent internet, there could be.

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5 hours ago, slomo said:

With decent internet, there could be.

Everything is going digital.

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6 hours ago, slomo said:

With decent internet, there could be.

 

While I think of it....as it turns out, this new 'cloud' computing doesn't take place in the sky at all....they got these large things....farms they're called...don't grow anything though...contain these huge devices for storing stuff and allowing the stuff to be accessed....forget what they've called...but apparently the machines use metric sh*tloads amounts of electricity....and cooling costs for these machines are huge....

 

..so much so...heard of a few of these farms being located in places with cooler climates...handy to bodies of water that can also be amalgamated to the cooling....Finland and Sweden have a few of these....seems to be a lot of water around Folyet which is certainly in a cooler climate......and according to sledding reports here, fairly handy to high tension hydro electric transmission lines carrying power from nearby hydro electric projects that were once used by paper mills proximate of which many are now closed or closing...

 

Might want to have extra in the budget for those protesting the hum of the farm is driving off the traditional wildlife and food....

 

....laugh if you want...

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one of the reasons I don't use "The Cloud"

I have no idea where my data is stored nor do I have any idea who has access to it.

I prefer to keep it at home!

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54 minutes ago, Bigfish said:

one of the reasons I don't use "The Cloud"

I have no idea where my data is stored nor do I have any idea who has access to it.

I prefer to keep it at home!

Second that!   With all the data breaches going on why would anyone want a lot of information out there?!

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4 hours ago, slomo said:

 

While I think of it....as it turns out, this new 'cloud' computing doesn't take place in the sky at all....they got these large things....farms they're called...don't grow anything though...contain these huge devices for storing stuff and allowing the stuff to be accessed....forget what they've called...but apparently the machines use metric sh*tloads amounts of electricity....and cooling costs for these machines are huge....

 

..so much so...heard of a few of these farms being located in places with cooler climates...handy to bodies of water that can also be amalgamated to the cooling....Finland and Sweden have a few of these....seems to be a lot of water around Folyet which is certainly in a cooler climate......and according to sledding reports here, fairly handy to high tension hydro electric transmission lines carrying power from nearby hydro electric projects that were once used by paper mills proximate of which many are now closed or closing...

 

Might want to have extra in the budget for those protesting the hum of the farm is driving off the traditional wildlife and food....

 

....laugh if you want...

And when one of those server has a failure the will wait the couple of days for someone to get there to fix it and then another couple of days for the part to arrive while the tech hangs out in a hotel waiting for the part, possibly longer in winter rather than the usual SLA of being on site within 2 hours.

 

Not going to happen.

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13 hours ago, 02Sled said:

And when one of those server has a failure the will wait the couple of days for someone to get there to fix it and then another couple of days for the part to arrive while the tech hangs out in a hotel waiting for the part, possibly longer in winter rather than the usual SLA of being on site within 2 hours.

 

Not going to happen.

This one seems pretty remote.....

 

The Luleå data center opened in 2013, and was Facebook's first outside the US.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3814105/That-s-really-cool-Facebook-gives-rare-glimpse-inside-gigantic-Lule-server-farm-just-70-miles-Artic-circle-Sweden.html

 

It is located deep in the forests of northern Sweden. 

'It's a key part of our global infrastructure, and it uses a variety of local natural resources to increase efficiency and save power,' said Zuckerberg.

'The small town of Luleå is less than 70 miles south of the Arctic Circle, and it's typically pretty cold. 

'The temperature in the area is below 50 degrees most days, so we use large fans to pull in the outside air to naturally cool the thousands of warm servers that line the center's broad hallways.' 

A dozen hydro-electric plants operate on nearby rivers, providing a reliable and renewable power source. 

The whole system is 10% more efficient and uses almost 40% less power than traditional data centers, Facebook claims.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Bigfish said:

one of the reasons I don't use "The Cloud"

I have no idea where my data is stored nor do I have any idea who has access to it.

I prefer to keep it at home!

 

15 hours ago, snowman said:

Second that!   With all the data breaches going on why would anyone want a lot of information out there?!

Has been particularly bad for actresses with cell phones and too much time on their hands. -_-

 

 

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