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Boy Oh Buoy

Caution / Warning - North Bay truck & trailer Blitz

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FYI , 

4 lanes southbound coming into North Bay it looks like a dozen  opp are pulling over a number of truck & trailer combos ;  enclosed sled trailers just like yours and mine. 

Probably leave a sour taste in many getting a charge on the last trip of the year. 

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In spite of coming up on messages boards or round the table conversations after riding, many with enclosed trailers still opt to put em in the trailer with either just put the parking brake on or use a single tie strap only. Even more annoying, being told different ways things need to be done by almost every officer. Last time I was checked, officer felt my using Super Clamps (yes both front and rear) was not in the spirit of the law but gave me a pass anyways. His reasoning, no load information clearly stamped as he'd have expected to see had I been using tie down straps instead. In the past, got shiat for using straps that didn't have information clearly printed on them, yes in spite of straps being in good condition and of size you'd expect to see used. 

Most I'd been stopped, stretch going up through Muskoka.

Edited by ZR SLEDHEAD

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Almost forgot, most common discussion, when you need extended "tow mirrors". Most feel if when sitting in the truck, must be able to see around the trailer, yes to the point of at least somewhat behind the trailer itself. frig, imagine how long those mirrors would need to be? If you can see down side of the trailer with either mirror long enough or perhaps convex and can safely change lanes, should that not be whats important?

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Yes , lots of questions still re yellow annual stickers on light duty trucks and trailers. 

A Hearst opp last month at a gas station  told me I was “lucky “ he wasn’t giving me a ticket for no sticker , even after I pointed out his hood wasn’t latched which wouldn’t be good in a high speed situation 

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25 minutes ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said:

Almost forgot, most common discussion, when you need extended "tow mirrors". Most feel if when sitting in the truck, must be able to see around the trailer, yes to the point of at least somewhat behind the trailer itself. frig, imagine how long those mirrors would need to be? If you can see down side of the trailer with either mirror long enough or perhaps convex and can safely change lanes, should that not be whats important?

These are the mirrors I have on my truck. They power extend and retract. I can't see behind my 8'6" wide trailer when they are extended but I can see down the side of the trailer. Like you said... I can't imagine mirrors that would allow me to see behind the trailer. I did look at a wireless camera to mount on the back of the trailer for backing up though.

 

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Y'all have a law aboot tieing the sleds down inside an enclosed trailer?

I don't know if we doo. I will doo some checking!

 

But I don't understand "why"?

What transport with a 53' van trailer has anything tied down?

You can put load braces up every so often to mitigate sliding ahead (tipping over) but nothing is "tied down".

 

???

 

 

I don't have an enclosed, but one of my chums recently bought one again, so it could come up.

Edited by Ox
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11 minutes ago, Ox said:

Y'all have a law aboot tieing the sleds down inside an enclosed trailer?

I don't know if we doo. I will doo some checking!

 

But I don't understand "why"?

What transport with a 53' van trailer has anything tied down?

You can put load braces up every so often to mitigate sliding ahead (tipping over) but nothing is "tied down".

 

???

 

 

I don't have an enclosed, but one of my chums recently bought one again, so it could come up.

Actually Ontario has load securement laws that dictates that all cargo, even cargo within a "van" type body has to be secured so as to meet the law as written.

Many sled trailers, van trailers and van type trucks drivers that still just load and go with no securement.

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I usually just clamp the fronts like the old days. After reading this season on here about strapping the rear down in the trailer, my dad and myself both do it. The extra strap over the rear bumper takes 2mins and if it helps us talking to the cops less, its a good thing.

 

I have a 2500hd truck with tow mirrors as does my dad. I told him I felt stupid extending my mirrors when towing the clamshell trailer since you see minivans and little SUVs pulling them all the time. But anything that helps to see more behind me is appreciated. Fully extended I still can't see behind the trailer, but can see the sides which is nice. 

 

On our last trip north, by buddy towed the trailer up with his GMC Canyon Duramax to save on fuel. That truck has normal mirrors and is a foot narrower than my truck to begin with. You looked in the mirrors and just read Triton for the 8hr trip north.

Edited by Basketcase
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44 minutes ago, Ox said:

Y'all have a law aboot tieing the sleds down inside an enclosed trailer?

I don't know if we doo. I will doo some checking!

 

But I don't understand "why"?

What transport with a 53' van trailer has anything tied down?

You can put load braces up every so often to mitigate sliding ahead (tipping over) but nothing is "tied down".

 

???

 

 

I don't have an enclosed, but one of my chums recently bought one again, so it could come up.

 

That has been mentioned in the past.

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On the trip to Timmins a F150 w/ a sandbox sized box passed us south of North Bay. It had a sled propped up on the tailgate & was towing a trailer. No straps were visible. A few minutes later an OPP crew cab passed us. Then down the road they had the F150 pulled over.

 

So in some ways we're our own worse enemies. 

 

That being said, I would hope nobody uses the friction or cam style straps anymore. Even though we tied down our 3 sleds w/ ratchet straps, our friend was determined to keep his old straps. we'd notice on our trips that if we checked things @ a stop, the ratchet straps would still be tight, while the others had slipped & there was little tension on them.

 

The commercial regs for Ontario:

 

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/commercial-vehicle-operators-safety-manual/module-14.shtml

 

Many years ago a co-worker who hauled 'show' pick ups around on a car trailer got tired of being told this was wrong/incorrect/improper even though the previous trip it was OK. He went to the scales in Whitby & got a copy of the regs & requirements. When an inspector started going on about his tie down methods, he'd grab the binder out of the cab. That was enough to speed up the inspection.

 

I bet they would've been busy the weekend before I drove home from Kap. On Mon' alone I met around 20 truck/trailer combos heading north between Cochrane & Powassan.

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12 minutes ago, revrnd said:

On the trip to Timmins a F150 w/ a sandbox sized box passed us south of North Bay. It had a sled propped up on the tailgate & was towing a trailer. No straps were visible. A few minutes later an OPP crew cab passed us. Then down the road they had the F150 pulled over.

 

So in some ways we're our own worse enemies. 

 

That being said, I would hope nobody uses the friction or cam style straps anymore. Even though we tied down our 3 sleds w/ ratchet straps, our friend was determined to keep his old straps. we'd notice on our trips that if we checked things @ a stop, the ratchet straps would still be tight, while the others had slipped & there was little tension on them.

They still sell those POSs?

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3 minutes ago, Basketcase said:

They still sell those POSs?

 

Yep, Royal has a couple listed in their catalog.

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2 hours ago, Boy Oh Buoy said:

FYI , 

4 lanes southbound coming into North Bay it looks like a dozen  opp are pulling over a number of truck & trailer combos ;  enclosed sled trailers just like yours and mine. 

Probably leave a sour taste in many getting a charge on the last trip of the year. 

Yes nailing dual axle trailers and checking straps on single enclosed. 

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4 minutes ago, Viperules700 said:

Yes nailing dual axle trailers and checking straps on single enclosed. 

Whats wrong with tandem trailers?

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1 minute ago, Basketcase said:

Whats wrong with tandem trailers?

Need the tow vechicle and trailer certification from the mto, on a yearly basis, since snowmobile trailer isn't considered recreational. 

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I have a 2500 with tandem trailer, checked with Mto here in Perth, he says don't need yellow sticker as long as trailer and load is under 2800kg, with 4 sleds I'm around 2200kg

Tandem axles has nothing to do with it

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53 minutes ago, Viperules700 said:

Need the tow vechicle and trailer certification from the mto, on a yearly basis, since snowmobile trailer isn't considered recreational. 

It is NOT because the snowmobile trailer isn't considered recreational. You shouldn't state things that are not true! 

If the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) of the tow vehicle + the GVWR rating of the trailer being towed are higher than the threshold dictated by the MTO (which is 4,500 kg. or approx. 10,000 lb.) then a annual yellow safety inspection sticker is required on both the tow vehicle and the towed trailer.

Pretty much any full sized pickup with a tandem enclosed trailer will be above the 4,500 kg. threshold.

I believe there is a caveat in the MTO rules that states that if the total weight of your tow vehicle + your trailer (loaded or empty) weighs less than 2800 kg. then you don't need the safety stickers.

Edited by PISTON LAKE CRUISER
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7 minutes ago, GTC said:

I have a 2500 with tandem trailer, checked with Mto here in Perth, he says don't need yellow sticker as long as trailer and load is under 2800kg, with 4 sleds I'm around 2200kg

Tandem axles has nothing to do with it

Tandem axles does have something to do with it if the combined GVWR ratings are over 4,500 kg..

It is an either/or scenario with the two ways of calculating if you require the stickers.

Was it an MTO enforcement officer that you checked with and if so, did they ask you the GVWR of the truck and of the trailer?

Have a look back at the "What did you do today" thread in the off topic forum in OC in the November 10, 2017 timeframe. This topic was discussed at length.

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Q16: How do I determine registered gross weights for trucks towing trailers?

The registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for commercial licence plates (black and white). The truck's RGW is based on and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or the truck, trailer(s) and load(s).

The RGW is indicated in kilograms (kg) on the right portion (plate portion) of a truck's ownership, to the right of "REG. GROSS WT." One kilogram equals 2.204 pounds and one pound equals 0.4536 (kg).

A trailer permit does not have a RGW. Generally the weight of a towed trailer and its load are added to the RGW of the truck. Load includes the driver, passengers, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, equipment, etc. carried in the truck and trailer.

"Truck" includes pickups and business-type vans with commercial licence plates. Farm plated trucks are subject to the same RGW rules.

Light trailers that transmit to the highway a total weight of 2,800 kilograms (6,173 lb.) or less are not included in determining registered gross weight.

To determine how much an attached trailer transmits to the highway and how much a truck should be registered for:

  1. Weigh the truck only, with the trailer attached.
    Illustration One - Weighing a truck only - Weight A
    Illustration of weighing a truck only, with the trailer attached
  2. Weigh the trailer only, with the trailer attached to the truck.
    Illustration Two - Weighing a trailer only - Weight B
    Illustration of weighing the trailer only, with the trailer attached to the truck

If the trailer weighs more than 2,800 kg (6,171 lb.):

  • register the truck for at least the combined weight of the truck and trailer, weights A and B

If the trailer weighs 2,800 kg (6,171 lb.) or less:

  • register the truck for at least the weight of the truck (weight A), which includes trailer tongue weight
  • weight transmitted directly to the ground by the trailer is not included in the RGW

Annual and semi-annual inspections

An annual inspection is valid for 12 months.

Trucks, trailers and converter dollies, alone or in combination, with a total gross weight, registered gross weight or manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,500 kg require an annual inspection.

  • Total gross weight: the weight transmitted to the highway by the truck and/or trailer - includes the driver, passenger, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, etc. carried by the truck and/or trailer
  • Registered gross weight (RGW): the maximum weight based on the fees paid for the truck licence plates - indicated in kilograms on the right (plate) portion of a truck's ownership next to "REG. GROSS WT." (trailers and converter dollies do not have a RGW)
  • Manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (MGVWR): the maximum weight a truck is safely capable of weighing as declared by the manufacturer - indicated on the vehicle's vehicle identification number (VIN) plate
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7 minutes ago, Yamaha4ever said:

 

Q16: How do I determine registered gross weights for trucks towing trailers?

The registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for commercial licence plates (black and white). The truck's RGW is based on and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or the truck, trailer(s) and load(s).

The RGW is indicated in kilograms (kg) on the right portion (plate portion) of a truck's ownership, to the right of "REG. GROSS WT." One kilogram equals 2.204 pounds and one pound equals 0.4536 (kg).

A trailer permit does not have a RGW. Generally the weight of a towed trailer and its load are added to the RGW of the truck. Load includes the driver, passengers, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, equipment, etc. carried in the truck and trailer.

"Truck" includes pickups and business-type vans with commercial licence plates. Farm plated trucks are subject to the same RGW rules.

Light trailers that transmit to the highway a total weight of 2,800 kilograms (6,173 lb.) or less are not included in determining registered gross weight.

To determine how much an attached trailer transmits to the highway and how much a truck should be registered for:

  1. Weigh the truck only, with the trailer attached.
    Illustration One - Weighing a truck only - Weight A
    Illustration of weighing a truck only, with the trailer attached
  2. Weigh the trailer only, with the trailer attached to the truck.
    Illustration Two - Weighing a trailer only - Weight B
    Illustration of weighing the trailer only, with the trailer attached to the truck

If the trailer weighs more than 2,800 kg (6,171 lb.):

  • register the truck for at least the combined weight of the truck and trailer, weights A and B

If the trailer weighs 2,800 kg (6,171 lb.) or less:

  • register the truck for at least the weight of the truck (weight A), which includes trailer tongue weight
  • weight transmitted directly to the ground by the trailer is not included in the RGW

Annual and semi-annual inspections

An annual inspection is valid for 12 months.

Trucks, trailers and converter dollies, alone or in combination, with a total gross weight, registered gross weight or manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,500 kg require an annual inspection.

  • Total gross weight: the weight transmitted to the highway by the truck and/or trailer - includes the driver, passenger, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, etc. carried by the truck and/or trailer
  • Registered gross weight (RGW): the maximum weight based on the fees paid for the truck licence plates - indicated in kilograms on the right (plate) portion of a truck's ownership next to "REG. GROSS WT." (trailers and converter dollies do not have a RGW)
  • Manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (MGVWR): the maximum weight a truck is safely capable of weighing as declared by the manufacturer - indicated on the vehicle's vehicle identification number (VIN) plate

That is a good explanation.

The trick here is not  to confuse RGW  which is registered gross weight (the weight that you requested and paid for on your tow vehicle) and  GVWR which is registered vehicle weight rating (the figure shown on the door jam of your tow vehicle and on the outside lower edge of the towed trailer).

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1 hour ago, GTC said:

I have a 2500 with tandem trailer, checked with Mto here in Perth, he says don't need yellow sticker as long as trailer and load is under 2800kg, with 4 sleds I'm around 2200kg

Tandem axles has nothing to do with it

For the inspection stickers they go by the weight you're capable of carrying. My wife's horse trailer is all aluminum and has 2 - 3500 lb axles. Even if pulling the trailer down the road empty the truck and the trailer would need inspection stickers.

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Makes more sense. I thought there was a law somewhere that I missed for tandem trailers.

 

I know the weight limits. My truck is a 2500 Duramax which weighs enough on its own. It is also a work truck that tows up to 12,000lbs of material. It is yellow stickered haha

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And to throw another wrench into it,  our mechanics at work that deal with this stuff often, inform me that if the truck is stickered you cannot tow a trailer that is not stickered; even a small light duty trailer 

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1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Tandem axles does have something to do with it if the combined GVWR ratings are over 4,500 kg..

It is an either/or scenario with the two ways of calculating if you require the stickers.

Was it an MTO enforcement officer that you checked with and if so, did they ask you the GVWR of the truck and of the trailer?

Have a look back at the "What did you do today" thread in the off topic forum in OC in the November 10, 2017 timeframe. This topic was discussed at length.

Yes that came from Mto officer, 

i was under the impressionthat I needed a sticker because I was over the 4500kg

My brothers asked him this fall and that is what he said, don't need it if trailer is less then 2800

i can check with with again, he s just up the highway from our shop

 

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24 minutes ago, Boy Oh Buoy said:

And to throw another wrench into it,  our mechanics at work that deal with this stuff often, inform me that if the truck is stickered you cannot tow a trailer that is not stickered; even a small light duty trailer 

The only exemption is a recreational trailer. If you are driving a truck which requires an inspection sticker and pulling a clam shell single axle sled trailer (example) the sled trailer also needs an inspection. Now the kicker as I understand it from reading and asking MTO... You had that single axle clam shell trailer inspected to be compliant for being towed by your heavy duty pickup. Now you want to tow it with a light duty pickup. Since the clam shell has an inspection sticker the light duty pickup which normally wouldn't need one now does because it's pulling a trailer that has an inspection sticker. Without the clam shell having been inspected neither would require it.

 

It's government... why would anyone think that the regulations would be clear and simple.

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