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Caution / Warning - North Bay truck & trailer Blitz


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28 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

The regulations have been in place for a VERY long time. There used to be a week long Quarter Horse show held each spring in the CNE Coliseum. (Quarterama). The year all this mess came into effect they did a lot of "promotion" to inform the public. I would have been in my early/mid 20's at the time.

Would that have been somewhere between 1985 and 1990? I'm thinking that that was the time frame when the yellow safety sticker program started. Probably closer to 1990. I could be way off because that just seems like last year to me LOL

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Poo-man, if you include all recreational trailers that by default includes enclosed toy trailers. Loaded they automatically surpass every half ton trucks capacity. Electric brakes often neglected, I don't think they deserve a pass.

 

My sled trailer has a GVWR of 3500# ... my pickup weighs 5000# ... add the cap and I'm still under my maximum. Not by much, but under.

 

I'll be damned if I'll spend money on the sticker cash grab  .....

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12 minutes ago, revrnd said:

A friend who has towed a lot over the years said @ the time, the crackdown came as a result of the 'landscaping/contracting' trailers that seemed to proliferate all of a sudden.

 

Last night I saw parked by a cottage an old boat trailer that had a box built on it. You guys that look after your stuff regardless of weights are being punished because people think garbage like that is road worthy to take up the 115 or 400 on a Fri' night, overloaded @ 120 kph.

About 10 years ago there was one of those inspection blitzes on the 400 northbound around King City. One of the guys I worked with had just retired. He made the news. He rented a U-Haul trailer to move to his cottage just outside of Sudbury. They had pulled his U-Haul trailer off the road. I needed a U-Haul trailer once and turned down two of them because of condition before they came up with an almost new one.

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4 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

Some of the sled/atv/boat trailers I have seen on the road simply shouldn't be on the road period. There isn't a regulation that requires trailers with combinations under 4500kg to be inspected unless you are referring to them needing inspection only if the truck already has an inspection sticker.

That's what I'm saying. If you have a yellow sticker on your truck and horse trailer, but also have a 4x8 box trailer I don't think you should have to sticker the small trailer just because you had to sticker your truck. I agree about junk being pulled around but I also see a lot of crappy travel trailers or people hauling huge fifth wheels around with half tons

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1 hour ago, mcZEd382 said:

They offered. At the time we were bombarded with opinions, everything from tandem, to electric brakes to if the trailer was built on a day with a blood moon, then it needed a sticker. The whole 4500kg GVWR thing didn't seem to be such common knowledge as it is today. So we declined. The blame for this mess, imo falls at the feet of the MTO and whatever PR company they have under contract. Why can this gov't put out marketing campaigns  for pretty much every petty little project the launch but important facts like this lie buried on websites? Would not take much, just a poster to be displayed at dealerships and ONRoute stops would be a big help.  

I posted on this thread a picture of poster showing the basic calculations. I was unable to find  an original on the MTO site. MTO site is a horrible site to find information. We are a small group that is being caught up in the larger net for the big rigs and commercial businesses. It would be nice to see a simplified document so we can be sure we are safely towing our trailers and loads.Shouldn't the OFSC be looking out for us and talking to the MTO to provide easy to read documents. I am sure the trucking industry provides simplified information to the new trucker on how they are to operate and care fort their trucks. I am sure a one or two page article in the snowmobile magazine written by the MTO would clear up many discrepancies and interpretations with the rules.

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6 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Would that have been somewhere between 1985 and 1990? I'm thinking that that was the time frame when the yellow safety sticker program started. Probably closer to 1990. I could be way off because that just seems like last year to me LOL

I'm in the same boat but I thought it was before that. I rationalize time based on what model year truck I was driving or similar occurrence. Thinking back I imagine I was older than I first thought I was when I sat through that seminar twice. Based on the year my wife bought her horse that would be about right 1985 to 1990. You're right... seems like last year.

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38 minutes ago, grover_yyz said:

I posted on this thread a picture of poster showing the basic calculations. I was unable to find  an original on the MTO site. MTO site is a horrible site to find information. We are a small group that is being caught up in the larger net for the big rigs and commercial businesses. It would be nice to see a simplified document so we can be sure we are safely towing our trailers and loads.Shouldn't the OFSC be looking out for us and talking to the MTO to provide easy to read documents. I am sure the trucking industry provides simplified information to the new trucker on how they are to operate and care fort their trucks. I am sure a one or two page article in the snowmobile magazine written by the MTO would clear up many discrepancies and interpretations with the rules.

An ideal opportunity for “The Intrepid Snowmobiler” to do some research and provide OFSC Trail Permit Holders with some useful and pertinent information.

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What is a guy to do when he tows about  20 different trailers a year? Some are mine,some are customers.This business of stickering the truck and having to sticker all the trailers is BS. I wonder if the reverse is also applicable. I don't believe there is a reasonable solution for somebody like me. I just have to run afoul of the law.--as do most  small Marinas.

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1 hour ago, bbakernbay said:

An ideal opportunity for “The Intrepid Snowmobiler” to do some research and provide OFSC Trail Permit Holders with some useful and pertinent information.

See my earlier post about his combination. 

 

@grover_yyz I was given that sheet by 1 of the co-workers I mentioned earlier.

 

X2 on the PSAs on traffic safety. A lot of the stuff we don't find out about until it's too late, yet the gov't of the day goes to great lengths in touting its latest boondoggle.

 

 

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2 hours ago, 02Sled said:

About 10 years ago there was one of those inspection blitzes on the 400 northbound around King City. One of the guys I worked with had just retired. He made the news. He rented a U-Haul trailer to move to his cottage just outside of Sudbury. They had pulled his U-Haul trailer off the road. I needed a U-Haul trailer once and turned down two of them because of condition before they came up with an almost new one.

 

Not sure where I saw it on TV but U Haul has a pretty sketchy record. I recall being in the lineup @ a car wash in Oshawa that was beside a U Haul franchise in the 2000s. Several of their straight trucks were Fords of a vintage that had long been rotated out of service from most commercial fleets.

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2 hours ago, Poo Man said:

It all boils down to what type of person you are. If you want to be 100% legal and never worry, or if your ok knowing that your towing a few times a year and chances are high you won't be bothered. Personally I think they need to get rid of the rule where every trailer needs a sticker even if under 4500kg combined. Even better include sled/atv/boat in the recreation exemption.

 

I can tow my 5000# TT behind my 3/4 ton because it's an RV because of the RV exemption, but a 2 place open trailer carrying 2 sleds causes me issues for permitting & inspections? What would that weigh, towards 2000#?

 

I wonder how many pencil pushers @ the MTO head office even drive?

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2 hours ago, revrnd said:

 

I can tow my 5000# TT behind my 3/4 ton because it's an RV because of the RV exemption, but a 2 place open trailer carrying 2 sleds causes me issues for permitting & inspections? What would that weigh, towards 2000#?

 

I wonder how many pencil pushers @ the MTO head office even drive?

 

My 14' 3 place open deck trailer is GVWR of 3500#. I'll bet a y more than that would need electric brakes. In fact I'm much surprised it doesn't have at least one set.  With a Sxs on it last fall it felt like I was towing a Sherman tank. 

 

Capacity  (load) is rated at 2400#. 3 sleds feels lighter than the SxS.  How they justify the weight restrictions and sticker B.S. is far beyond me .... 

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On 3/28/2018 at 1:21 PM, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Tandem axles does have something to do with it if the combined GVWR ratings are over 4,500 kg..

It is an either/or scenario with the two ways of calculating if you require the stickers.

Was it an MTO enforcement officer that you checked with and if so, did they ask you the GVWR of the truck and of the trailer?

Have a look back at the "What did you do today" thread in the off topic forum in OC in the November 10, 2017 timeframe. This topic was discussed at length.

And if they are over 4600 kg you need a restricted A license to drive the vehicle.

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9 hours ago, MXZ41 said:

And if they are over 4600 kg you need a restricted A license to drive the vehicle.

What you can't drive with a G license in Ontario

 

Tractor-trailer: People who are looking to drive tractor-trailers will be unable to do so without the proper licensing. In Ontario, drivers must hold a Class A license to drive large and heavy tractor-trailer trucks.

 

Large motor homes: A new category was recently created for drivers looking to operate a different type of large and heavy vehicle – Class A restricted licenses are for people who want to drive large motor homes.

 

School bus: Would-be school bus drivers will need to get a Class B or Class E license, depending on the size of bus they plan to drive.

 

Regular bus: Non-school bus drivers are also required to have a special license. Bus drivers in Ontario routinely hold a Class C license. Buses that carry 24 people or less are allowed to be operated by drivers who have a Class F license.

 

Motor vehicle over 11,000 kilograms: Drivers of small trucks in Ontario, or other vehicles weighing over 11,000 kilograms, need to pass their licensing tests for a Class D license.

 

Tow a vehicle over 4,600 kilograms: Class D licenses are also required for drivers who want to tow a vehicle over 4,600 kilograms, regardless of whether they are towing with a car, van or truck.

 

Ambulance: In order to become an ambulance driver you must first obtain a Class F license in Ontario.

 

Motorcycle: Class G license holders in Ontario are not allowed to drive motorcycles. That privilege is reserved for holders of a Class M (or M1 or M2) license.

 

Air-brake endorsement: Finally, if you are planning to drive a vehicle with an air brake, you will need to get additional permission called a Z air brake endorsement. This applies regardless of the license class you hold.

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A while back someone put a picture on OC of a pickup pulling 2 sled trailers. I was interested to find out if this was legal or not. I've heard a lot of varying opinions on its legality and what's required to be legal. Ontario's E laws website didn't help me much. I have looked at a website from Peter Suess who is a transportation consultant and lives in Ontario. He writes a blog and has authored  a number of articles on what you can and can't do in Ontario with different driver's licenses, etc.

In this article    http://www.pstc.ca/can-you-tow-more-than-one-vehicle/     he talks about the legality of "double towing".

Turns out according to him that in Ontario you can double tow with 2 ball type hitches as long as you meet the requirements.

I'm not sure the setup in the picture had all the requirements ( trailer brakes come to mind) but apparently according to Peter the concept is legal. Wait till Wynnebag finds out. She'll tax the hell out of it.

He also has some interesting articles about what we have been discussing in this thread for what it's worth.

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1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

Large motor homes: A new category was recently created for drivers looking to operate a different type of large and heavy vehicle – Class A restricted licenses are for people who want to drive large motor homes.

Define large.

 

DSCF1056.JPG

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Only one vehicle to be drawn on highway

161 No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle, other than a commercial motor vehicle, that is drawing more than one vehicle.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 161.

Highway Traffic Act of Ontario:       Commercial motor vehicle with Black and White plates, this allows the large transports to tow more than one trailer, same as smaller trucks.  ie: No minivans or suv's (blue and white plates)

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1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

A while back someone put a picture on OC of a pickup pulling 2 sled trailers. I was interested to find out if this was legal or not. I've heard a lot of varying opinions on its legality and what's required to be legal. Ontario's E laws website didn't help me much. I have looked at a website from Peter Suess who is a transportation consultant and lives in Ontario. He writes a blog and has authored  a number of articles on what you can and can't do in Ontario with different driver's licenses, etc.

In this article    http://www.pstc.ca/can-you-tow-more-than-one-vehicle/     he talks about the legality of "double towing".

Turns out according to him that in Ontario you can double tow with 2 ball type hitches as long as you meet the requirements.

I'm not sure the setup in the picture had all the requirements ( trailer brakes come to mind) but apparently according to Peter the concept is legal. Wait till Wynnebag finds out. She'll tax the hell out of it.

He also has some interesting articles about what we have been discussing in this thread for what it's worth.

From the article

 

Do I have the correct hitch?

This is an interesting one. Some places require the first vehicle to be a fifth wheel type hitch and the second can be something else, commonly a ball. This is not true in all states and provinces that allow more than one vehicle being towed. Ontario, for example, does allow two ball hitches trailers!

 

I have seen on rare occasion a pickup towing a 5th wheel RV with a boat hitched to the back of the RV. Forget about backing up. :D Imagine going down the wrong road and coming to a dead end.

 

41 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

Define large.

 

DSCF1056.JPG

That would be a class A motorhome which would be large and illegal to drive with a G license. A number of our friends have similar and have also needed to get their air brake endorsement as well.

 

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On 4/1/2018 at 10:51 AM, revrnd said:

A friend who has towed a lot over the years said @ the time, the crackdown came as a result of the 'landscaping/contracting' trailers that seemed to proliferate all of a sudden.

 

Last night I saw parked by a cottage an old boat trailer that had a box built on it. You guys that look after your stuff regardless of weights are being punished because people think garbage like that is road worthy to take up the 115 or 400 on a Fri' night, overloaded @ 120 kph.

 

The "crackdown" as you say, or as I would say "the goal to control the grass roots economy" is multi faceted but you are spot on that the landscape guys were used as the tool for these advanced MTO powers in combination with the CVOR program which is impossible to follow 100%, literally impossible. Unless you consider shining chrome and never driving your rig of the lot as a perfect compliance strategy. This is done ENTIRELY by design to grant supreme powers to the MTO and police. I see OPP guys with scales hitting the local gravel yard area all the time too. Its completely off the charts total imbalance full tilt effort to do nothing of benefit and to serve "busy work" for a MASSIVELY over staffed and under required bureaucracy. It sadly is as simple as that.

 

Thats not to say there are not some problems on the roads with regards to safety but lets take a look at some massive figure jumbling going on that serves so called safety purposes;

 

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp3322-2015-1487.html



Please take note of "Licensed Drivers and Motor Vehicle Registrations by Type of Vehicle (in thousands)" and you will notice the most absurd stat possible, since the advent of CVOR commercial accidents went UP, and WAYYYYYY up. Why? Well, for people like me who avoid anything to do with CVOR requirement process it left the dregs, because they BLED the money so completely out of commercial vehicle operations with extreme red tape the results PROVE these insane over reaches, BACK FIRED and DO MORE HARM TO THE PUBLIC THAN GOOD! Its right there, in black and white.

 

But nope, not interested in any of this in Ontario the game the gov't plays is bill and collect.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, 02Sled said:

 

That would be a class A motorhome which would be large and illegal to drive with a G license. A number of our friends have similar and have also needed to get their air brake endorsement as well.

 

So..... How the heck am I supposed to be informed of this, after many years of ownership? At the "license" bureau at sticker renewal time, in 18 months?? At the side of the road?

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18 minutes ago, manotickmike said:

So..... How the heck am I supposed to be informed of this, after many years of ownership? At the "license" bureau at sticker renewal time, in 18 months?? At the side of the road?

That would be something I would be looking into myself and asking my dealer before I bought it. Or especially in the internet age placing a few key strokes to find out.

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47 minutes ago, crispy said:

Its completely off the charts total imbalance full tilt effort to do nothing of benefit and to serve "busy work" for a MASSIVELY over staffed and under required bureaucracy. It sadly is as simple as that.

 

The new Premier will no doubt pare down this bloated, over paid, underworked sector. 

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On 2018-04-01 at 1:07 PM, gtserider said:

What is a guy to do when he tows about  20 different trailers a year? Some are mine,some are customers.This business of stickering the truck and having to sticker all the trailers is BS. I wonder if the reverse is also applicable. I don't believe there is a reasonable solution for somebody like me. I just have to run afoul of the law.--as do most  small Marinas.

Only other way around it is to remove the plate and put up a slow vehicle moving sign. I do this when I rent dual axle trailers that I go to dump with. No weight restrictions this way, but not suppose to go on major highways though. Any trailers that I just tow temporally that are dual axle, I do this with. 

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