PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 12 hours ago, Gadgetman said: The combination's weight is determined by adding the greater of the truck's actual weight, registered gross weight or gross vehicle weight rating to the greater of the trailer's actual weight or gross vehicle weight rating. An explanation of these terms follows. I'm afraid you are incorrect Zozo. Read the statement above. It's part of my post from 9:34 PM yesterday. The GVWR of the truck you mentioned is 4460kg. If you add that to your trailers GVWR you will be more than 4500 kg. total so you need stickers on both the truck and the trailer. By actual weight you are OK but the MTO has 3 different ways to figure it and the way with the highest figures is what they use for the requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Also you need to update the RGW on your registration with the max total weight you will pull with your vehicle, trailer, load, fuel and passengers. If you don’t do this, they can give you a ticket for this... The amount of registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for truck licence plates. RGW is based on, and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or truck and trailer(s) and load(s). A trailer does not have a RGW. Generally the weight of a towed trailer(s) and its load are added to the RGW of the truck. Load includes the driver, passengers, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, equipment, etc. carried in the truck and trailer. The amount of RGW is located on the right portion (plate portion) of a truck's ownership, to the right of "REG. GROSS WT" and is in kilograms (kgs). One kilogram equals 2.204 pounds and one pound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 13 hours ago, grover_yyz said: "Trust them" Are you saying some places are shady and do not do a proper inspection? I have to trust a repair shop to do their job so i can get my sticker. If MTO finds a serious problem, would the certifier/mechanic not be liable? As revrnd has posted and there are other court cases that the trade is keeping an eye on. There are also facilities that oversell on needless items and hold you for ransom if you want your sticker. Having a mechanic you can trust is like having a doctor you can trust. Your life may be depending on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, catinental couch said: As revrnd has posted and there are other court cases that the trade is keeping an eye on. There are also facilities that oversell on needless items and hold you for ransom if you want your sticker. Having a mechanic you can trust is like having a doctor you can trust. Your life may be depending on it. My idgit neighbour wanted me to welded up his POS homemade trailer (frame made of thin wall tubing similar to muffler pipe). It should've been scrapped IMO. I told him no ticket/no insurance. I think there was a MVA on Hwy 28 near Burleigh Falls where a homemade trailer was involved back in the 80s. I think it came apart & another vehicle hit it. I'll weld up stuff for friends for their ATVs, but there is NO way I'd work on anything for highway service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 There are lots if people without trade certificates doing work that they shouldn't. If something happens and they land in court, they could lose everything they own. That is only one reason why garage rates are high. The insurance premiums are outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 13 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: I'm afraid you are incorrect Zozo. Read the statement above. It's part of my post from 9:34 PM yesterday. The GVWR of the truck you mentioned is 4460kg. If you add that to your trailers GVWR you will be more than 4500 kg. total so you need stickers on both the truck and the trailer. By actual weight you are OK but the MTO has 3 different ways to figure it and the way with the highest figures is what they use for the requirement. I agree, if the trailer has a sticker on it stating the weight rating, however if it does not, it then defaults to combined weight. I think having 3.4 ton and not getting a sticker is silly. You are very restricted in what you could tow legally without one, and if you stayed legal without a sticker, then you really have no need for a more expensive truck that rides worse and burns more fuel and should stick with a 1/2 ton. I guess, if you have a home made trailer, or have one that did not come with a placard showing weight rating, or that placard has been removed, you are ok if within the weight restrictions. I bet 99& of people that tow an enclosed newer trailer with 3/4 ton and do not have the sticker are doing so without being within the rules and will eventually find out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, catinental couch said: There are lots if people without trade certificates doing work that they shouldn't. If something happens and they land in court, they could lose everything they own. That is only one reason why garage rates are high. The insurance premiums are outrageous. It is a risk a smart man would not take, sure, if it is your own trailer, do it if you trust yourself, but for a stranger, like you say, you stand to lose a lot for very little gain. Not a smart bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Man Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Greggie said: Also you need to update the RGW on your registration with the max total weight you will pull with your vehicle, trailer, load, fuel and passengers. If you don’t do this, they can give you a ticket for this... The amount of registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for truck licence plates. RGW is based on, and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or truck and trailer(s) and load(s). A trailer does not have a RGW. Generally the weight of a towed trailer(s) and its load are added to the RGW of the truck. Load includes the driver, passengers, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, equipment, etc. carried in the truck and trailer. The amount of RGW is located on the right portion (plate portion) of a truck's ownership, to the right of "REG. GROSS WT" and is in kilograms (kgs). One kilogram equals 2.204 pounds and one pound And maybe your licence. Even though your allowed 23,000 between truck and trailer, trailer is limited to 10,100lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Poo Man said: And maybe your licence. Even though your allowed 23,000 between truck and trailer, trailer is limited to 10,100lbs. You are a little light on the allowed maximum combined weight, actually a G class license allows you to drive a vehicle with hydraulic brakes and with or without trailer up to 11,000 kg. (24,244 lb.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTC Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Greggie said: Also you need to update the RGW on your registration with the max total weight you will pull with your vehicle, trailer, load, fuel and passengers. If you don’t do this, they can give you a ticket for this... The amount of registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for truck licence plates. RGW is based on, and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or truck and trailer(s) and load(s). A trailer does not have a RGW. Generally the weight of a towed trailer(s) and its load are added to the RGW of the truck. Load includes the driver, passengers, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, equipment, etc. carried in the truck and trailer. The amount of RGW is located on the right portion (plate portion) of a truck's ownership, to the right of "REG. GROSS WT" and is in kilograms (kgs). One kilogram equals 2.204 pounds and one pound You only need to add the tongue weight trailer puts on the truck to your rgw, as long as trailer and trailer load combined is less then 2800 kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: You are a little light on the allowed maximum combined weight, actually a G class license allows you to drive a vehicle with hydraulic brakes and with or without trailer up to 11,000 kg. (24,244 lb.). True but the total weight of the trailer can’t be more then 4600 kg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 7 hours ago, zoso said: I agree, if the trailer has a sticker on it stating the weight rating, however if it does not, it then defaults to combined weight. I think having 3.4 ton and not getting a sticker is silly. You are very restricted in what you could tow legally without one, and if you stayed legal without a sticker, then you really have no need for a more expensive truck that rides worse and burns more fuel and should stick with a 1/2 ton. I guess, if you have a home made trailer, or have one that did not come with a placard showing weight rating, or that placard has been removed, you are ok if within the weight restrictions. I bet 99& of people that tow an enclosed newer trailer with 3/4 ton and do not have the sticker are doing so without being within the rules and will eventually find out the hard way. In the case you mentioned, your trucks GVWR is 4,460 kg. and the limit is 4500kg. that means if the trailer GVWR is more than 40 kg. you need the stickers. Pretty sure there isn't a manufactured or homebuilt trailer that would have a calculated GVWR of less than 41kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 What about a 2006 Dakota with a GVWR of 2727 kg on the door sticker and an aluminum enclosed Toy Carrier trailer with a GVWR of 1200 kg ? Total weight of 3927 kg. Two sleds inside held down at the front with Super Clamps. Held down and back at the rear with two 1,100 lb ratchet straps EACH over the rear suspension cross bar and onto D-rings BOLTED through the floor with aluminum sandwich plates under the floor. Sleds can't go forward or sideways at the rear. Trailer coupler locked closed, draw bar pined from the left to right, heavy safety chains crossed and attached to the receiver with locking grab hooks. Extended mirrors added on that can see down the side of the trailer on each side. There must be something wrong with this combination. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcZEd382 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 2:05 PM, 02Sled said: For the inspection stickers they go by the weight you're capable of carrying. My wife's horse trailer is all aluminum and has 2 - 3500 lb axles. Even if pulling the trailer down the road empty the truck and the trailer would need inspection stickers. So do you have stickers on all 3? How much do you pay annually in inspections and stickers? We have a Ram 1500, 19ft Neo V nose and a bumper pull 2 horse with dressing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Big Pussy said: What about a 2006 Dakota with a GVWR of 2727 kg on the door sticker and an aluminum enclosed Toy Carrier trailer with a GVWR of 1200 kg ? Total weight of 3927 kg. Two sleds inside held down at the front with Super Clamps. Held down and back at the rear with two 1,100 lb ratchet straps EACH over the rear suspension cross bar and onto D-rings BOLTED through the floor with aluminum sandwich plates under the floor. Sleds can't go forward or sideways at the rear. Trailer coupler locked closed, draw bar pined from the left to right, heavy safety chains crossed and attached to the receiver with locking grab hooks. Extended mirrors added on that can see down the side of the trailer on each side. There must be something wrong with this combination. BP Do the super clamps have their certified weight capacity shown somewhere on them? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Do the super clamps have their certified weight capacity shown somewhere on them? LOL I have no idea ! They came with the trailer. 12 years with no problem so far an have never been stopped. But I'm doing what I can to be proactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 24 minutes ago, Big Pussy said: I have no idea ! They came with the trailer. 12 years with no problem so far an have never been stopped. But I'm doing what I can to be proactive. I really think you've got it covered. Any officer checking it would have a hard time finding an issue IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 MTO is one of if not THE most extortionist bureaucracies Ontario has. Perfect example of why we NEED to keep the damn gov't OUT of our lives as much as possible. The MTO is so over reaching they issue charges for potential crime. If you have a 14 pass van without a commercial sticker? You get charged even if theres only one person in the van because "You COULD possible pick up more people later" PULL THESE POWERS BACK, enough is enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 11 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: I really think you've got it covered. Any officer checking it would have a hard time finding an issue IMHO. No trailer mirrors. Dakota body is too narrow to use the stock mirrors. The MTO might give you an argument about braking capability. They would have to be pretty pi$$y to go that far with you if you are equipped the way you say you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, crispy said: MTO is one of if not THE most extortionist bureaucracies Ontario has. Perfect example of why we NEED to keep the damn gov't OUT of our lives as much as possible. The MTO is so over reaching they issue charges for potential crime. If you have a 14 pass van without a commercial sticker? You get charged even if theres only one person in the van because "You COULD possible pick up more people later" PULL THESE POWERS BACK, enough is enough Agreed but not just the MTO. The government employees are so afraid of losing their sunshine list job that they will make up any rule to charge you with so they can show their superiors how good of a job they have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, catinental couch said: No trailer mirrors. Dakota body is too narrow to use the stock mirrors. The MTO might give you an argument about braking capability. They would have to be pretty pi$$y to go that far with you if you are equipped the way you say you are. Actually BP says in his last line that he has mirror extensions that let him see down the side of the trailer on both sides so he has that covered. What is the measurement or scale for braking capacity and is it a written regulation? I have never seen or heard of anything to do with that in MTO regulations when it comes to light trucks towing trailers with no brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 12 hours ago, Big Pussy said: What about a 2006 Dakota with a GVWR of 2727 kg on the door sticker and an aluminum enclosed Toy Carrier trailer with a GVWR of 1200 kg ? Total weight of 3927 kg. Two sleds inside held down at the front with Super Clamps. Held down and back at the rear with two 1,100 lb ratchet straps EACH over the rear suspension cross bar and onto D-rings BOLTED through the floor with aluminum sandwich plates under the floor. Sleds can't go forward or sideways at the rear. Trailer coupler locked closed, draw bar pined from the left to right, heavy safety chains crossed and attached to the receiver with locking grab hooks. Extended mirrors added on that can see down the side of the trailer on each side. There must be something wrong with this combination. Got it covered (when I put them on). Even though many here say they don't work, for some reason I can clearly see down doth sides of the trailer. I guess a Dakota with trailer package and 6x9 trailer package mirrors are wider than you think. With the strap on mirrors, even wider. I don't think the MTO require the mirrors to be "Permanently Affixed" to the vehicle. O, did I mention, the truck is registered for "Personal Use", not commercial. It's just a "Toy Truck" but has the front disk brakes off the Ram 1500 of the day. My riding group included an MTO officer for a few winters many years ago. If we weren't legal back then, he would have had us all in jail. He did no spectacular feats to strap his or his dad's sled in their trailer. One strap on the back bumper If I recall correctly. I have no desire to own a beheamith tow vehicle. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 12 hours ago, mcZEd382 said: So do you have stickers on all 3? How much do you pay annually in inspections and stickers? We have a Ram 1500, 19ft Neo V nose and a bumper pull 2 horse with dressing room. I haven't gotten anything inspected in a few years. The horse trailer hasn't been used since my wife stopped competing. It used to be that from time to time you would see the MTO set up on the road checking trailers arriving and leaving some of the horse shows. I used to have stickers on the truck and the 3 trailers since she used to spend a lot of time on the road with the horse trailer. If the truck has an inspection sticker everything it tows requires an inspection even if you are under 4,500 kg. combined. The truck we just picked up Feb 1 has a GVWR of 3,561 kg but with the heavy duty payload package adds another 1,188 kg to that for a total of 4,749 kg. The King Ranch includes the payload package. You can however register it when you get your plates for less weight. A commercial vehicle for personal use less than 3,000 kg. the license plate is only $120.00. Go above that and you pay more. I had the dealer register it so plates don't cost more than the $120. https://www.ontario.ca/page/register-vehicle-permit-licence-plate-and-sticker#section-2 I don't recall how much we were paying for the inspections. It was a pain in the butt. The place which did the truck would do the sled trailer but not the boat trailer or the horse trailer. They didn't want to do them since the aluminum horse trailer has electric brakes and the boat trailer has hydraulic surge brakes. I did a bunch of back and forth getting them done one at a time. I suspect that there are a lot of people running the roads in Ontario with F150, Ram 1500 etc. towing trailers not realizing they are taking their chances. With a GVWR of 2,999 kg on the light duty pickup that only leaves 1500 kg available for the GVWR of the trailer. My enclosed sled trailer has a dry weight of 450 kg and a GVWR of 1,360 kg. My combined GVWR truck and sled trailer is 4,359 kg. just under the 4,500 kg. requiring inspection. Get a tandem axle sled trailer you're going to be over the 4,500 kg for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 13 hours ago, Big Pussy said: What about a 2006 Dakota with a GVWR of 2727 kg on the door sticker and an aluminum enclosed Toy Carrier trailer with a GVWR of 1200 kg ? Total weight of 3927 kg. Two sleds inside held down at the front with Super Clamps. Held down and back at the rear with two 1,100 lb ratchet straps EACH over the rear suspension cross bar and onto D-rings BOLTED through the floor with aluminum sandwich plates under the floor. Sleds can't go forward or sideways at the rear. Trailer coupler locked closed, draw bar pined from the left to right, heavy safety chains crossed and attached to the receiver with locking grab hooks. Extended mirrors added on that can see down the side of the trailer on each side. There must be something wrong with this combination. BP looks like you've got everything covered. Under 4,500 kg. Everything properly secured and sight lines on the mirrors. Crossed chains etc. I used to wonder about why the crossed chains. I had one MTO guy tell me when checking the horse trailer years ago that the concept is if the trailer comes off the ball, the crossed chains will create a cradle to stop the tongue from hitting the road. Some chains I've seen have been so long that even crossed you see the occasional spark as the scrape the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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