ZR SLEDHEAD Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 It's 110% counterproductive, we the permit buyers have no business even knowing whats going on behind closed doors. All it does is further our impression that no one truly has a handle on what the heck is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, revrnd said: And how constructive is it? If the executive as a whole or as a member has an issue w/ the district or OFSC, they shouldn't be yapping about it online to the general public. Do like me and get an email with pics sent to the district AND direct to Barrie.... sh!t gets real in a hurry.... I speak from experience. Ironically the district governor agrees with me, as per our chat yesterday ... apparently he knows that a coin has more than one side ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, revrnd said: And how constructive is it? If the executive as a whole or as a member EDIT: OF THE CLUB'S EXECUTIVE has an issue w/ the district or OFSC, they shouldn't be yapping about it online to the general public. It gets the attention of the idiots that are starving the club for cash and with holding monies that should be getting those groomers rolling. No doubt they have already brought the issue forward and have been told, sorry, the well is dry....millions in the ofsc bank account, but the permit buyer can go crap in his hart and ride moguls all day after paying for travel and hotel to get to open trails. The OFSC is a disgrace and run with the attitude of a spoiled government employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said: It's 110% counterproductive, we the permit buyers have no business even knowing whats going on behind closed doors. All it does is further our impression that no one truly has a handle on what the heck is going on. What the hell are you talking about. The permit buyer has every right to know why he is travelling 600kms and has to ride on crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me&mymxz Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, zoso said: What the hell are you talking about. The permit buyer has every right to know why he is travelling 600kms and has to ride on crap. Agreed 100% The more that the word gets out that the club/district/Barrie could use help with direction. That the representatives of the clubs have to challenge the direction of the governors and the administrators. The AGM is little more than a rubber stamp process for the policy's introduced by the governors and the administrators. The more that the average sledder speaks up at club meetings and the AGM the greater chance that alternate ideas will make their way into policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, zoso said: It gets the attention of the idiots that are starving the club for cash and with holding monies that should be getting those groomers rolling. No doubt they have already brought the issue forward and have been told, sorry, the well is dry....millions in the ofsc bank account, but the permit buyer can go crap in his hart and ride moguls all day after paying for travel and hotel to get to open trails. The OFSC is a disgrace and run with the attitude of a spoiled government employee. I knew of the money being returned last Weds. You would think the executive of the Golden Corridor being aware of what was happening. HOPEFULLY the money being 'returned' will be distributed to the northern districts now & in the future when similar situations arise when the season goes down the toilet prematurely 'south of 60'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Denis007 said: Do like me and get an email with pics sent to the district AND direct to Barrie.... sh!t gets real in a hurry.... I speak from experience. Ironically the district governor agrees with me, as per our chat yesterday ... apparently he knows that a coin has more than one side ... Does that mean that there will be something positive happening to have those Clubs continue to groom until the end of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 This is a copy and paste from their Facebook page. “Apparently our district received $5900 last week and this has to be split to 10 clubs in our district. And we had to borrow money to pay our outstanding bills” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, revrnd said: I knew of the money being returned last Weds. You would think the executive of the Golden Corridor being aware of what was happening. HOPEFULLY the money being 'returned' will be distributed to the northern districts now & in the future when similar situations arise when the season goes down the toilet prematurely 'south of 60'. To the best of my knowledge all the money that is owed to northern districts ( or any other district for that matter) was paid last Tuesday. Nobody had to wait for money to be returned to the OFSC. Now, are there flaws in the methodology? For sure there are which is resulting in a timing issue right now. Getting a big payment the first week of April doesn’t put fuel in the tank now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 so who can fix these flaws for certain situations like right now which seem to be the norm now?? No snow south and huge traffic in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Big Pete said: To the best of my knowledge all the money that is owed to northern districts ( or any other district for that matter) was paid last Tuesday. Nobody had to wait for money to be returned to the OFSC. Now, are there flaws in the methodology? For sure there are which is resulting in a timing issue right now. Getting a big payment the first week of April doesn’t put fuel in the tank now. Big Pete, this is a copy and paste from the Club’s Facebook page which confirms what you just posted. “Apparently our district received $5900 last week and this has to be split to 10 clubs in our district. And we had to borrow money to pay our outstanding bills.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: Big Pete, this is a copy and paste from the Club’s Facebook page which confirms what you just posted. “Apparently our district received $5900 last week and this has to be split to 10 clubs in our district. And we had to borrow money to pay our outstanding bills.” IOW's the district has no money either, BUT the ofsc has plenty and are not feeding the areas that have open trails in FEBRUARY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 5 hours ago, zoso said: Airing "dirty laundry" on facebook will get some knickers in a knot for sure. Complain about the status quo in any format and many will get upset. Egos at the OFSC provincial level are very fragile. There's always two sides to a story and I am sure we are only hearing a carefully selected amount of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 29 minutes ago, gobills said: so who can fix these flaws for certain situations like right now which seem to be the norm now?? No snow south and huge traffic in the North. Great question Gobills. The basic function of the EQ model works. It puts more money in the hands of districts/clubs that are grooming. But here is the problem. The model uses current season data to determine the payments. It states in October with a forecast (based on 4 yr average) of what we think is going to happen over the season. The forecasts are either replaced with actual data as it becomes known (permit sales is good example and is easy to do). Or the forecast is updated with additional info. The current methodology has been to not update the grooming hours forecast until the Feb payment. For grooming estimates this could either over or under fund any given district depending on their particular circumstance. So who provides the grooming hour forecasts? Since the inception of the EQ model I can’t recall our district ever being consulted for grooming estimated. I would expect that to be true across the province. So somebody in Barrie is guessing at what the PBR club is/ will be going for grooming. Are you starting to see the problem. Now every didtrict received a copy of their updated EQ funding with the last payment on Tuesday last. But nobody can correct any errors so it is what it is. The update shows the data for each pse, the district and the province. With a little math you can figure out what the grooming hours are for each pse. For my own club it shows EAq based on approx 290 hrs. But I already have 330 done according to Atlastrax. So I am short about 40 hours or approx $2300. I know this will sort itself out come the final reconciliation but that is small comfort if I have bills to pay now. So the single biggest improvement could be getting Districts involved in the forecasting for EQ payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 It's easy to whine and complain on Facebook. No need to get the facts straight. Say what you feel, informed or not, and expect the earth to move. Not so easy to step up to the plate as volunteers, club directors, district directors, district governors, etc, and accept responsibility for trying to do the right thing on behalf of 100,000 sledders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, Blake G said: It's easy to whine and complain on Facebook. No need to get the facts straight. Say what you feel, informed or not, and expect the earth to move. Not so easy to step up to the plate as volunteers, club directors, district directors, district governors, etc, and accept responsibility for trying to do the right thing on behalf of 100,000 sledders. Or step up and continually screw it up...never wanting to listen because your fragile ego may be damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Here we are going again, all Districts were paid by the Ofsc for all their grooming hours. If it’s right that the District received only $5900, that means they they were already over paid and spent the money. Running a club or District, it’s not a big bag with money and we take as much as we want. It’s budgeting and planning. Every club has and receives enough money of the Ofsc to do the grooming and finish the season,. Have seen clubs with 200 and 900 permits, in the same year the club with 900 permits lost $20,000 a year and the 200 permits club had a profit of 8,000. its frugal spending money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, Blake G said: It's easy to whine and complain on Facebook. No need to get the facts straight. Say what you feel, informed or not, and expect the earth to move. Not so easy to step up to the plate as volunteers, club directors, district directors, district governors, etc, and accept responsibility for trying to do the right thing on behalf of 100,000 sledders. Blake I agree. I am amazed over the number of people (club execs/district execs) that still do not understand the EQ model. And this is Year 4. But My experience has also been that when you do step up and point out the shortfalls or problems and try to make a difference and are basically ignored what’s a person to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 24 minutes ago, zoso said: Or step up and continually screw it up...never wanting to listen because your fragile ego may be damaged. It's always easy to be an arm chair critic when you aren't part of the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, Greggie said: Here we are going again, all Districts were paid by the Ofsc for all their grooming hours. If it’s right that the District received only $5900, that means they they were already over paid and spent the money. Running a club or District, it’s not a big bag with money and we take as much as we want. It’s budgeting and planning. Every club has and receives enough money of the Ofsc to do the grooming and finish the season,. Have seen clubs with 200 and 900 permits, in the same year the club with 900 permits lost $20,000 a year and the 200 permits club had a profit of 8,000. its frugal spending money. Greggie, I think the primary issue is that almost the entire trail system south of Highway 17 is closed or has been closed for a considerable period of time. There is a very small section of Ontario that has sufficient snow to be able to be groomed and many sledders are heading there to get some sledding in. The OFSC is sending out multiple Facebook posts encouraging everyone to get up north and enjoy their trails. This is only the 3rd week of February, not mid-March or even early April. This lack of funding is inconceivable to many who thought that MOTS was the new and improved funding model that would address these needs. You Groom, you get paid for it! Why isn’t this new funding model not working. I don’t believe this is about Clubs throwing money around and not being frugal as you keep suggesting. Clubs needing to borrow money to pay their bills in mid-February is shocking as is the District supposedly getting $5,900 to be split amongst 10 Clubs. I would be hard presssed as a Club President up there not to be feeling hard done by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, 02Sled said: It's always easy to be an arm chair critic when you aren't part of the solution. MOTS was supposed to be the Solution for this very scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, 02Sled said: It's always easy to be an arm chair critic when you aren't part of the solution. Saw a lot of that this season "KLSC is grooming the railbed and Paudash is still red!" You feel like posting, "Two different types of terrain you effing idiot!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbinder Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 the major problem we are facing is us . I do not know what planet some snowmobilers have been on for twenty years, but clubs south of the forty fifth parallel haven.t had a snow year or good season in decades people continue to buy passes in their home area and ride in the north a three week season does not warrant a new groomer and clubhouse while all the small clubs with three month season are folding due to over use i bought two permits in the north from small clubs currently showing green trails . and as usual the south of snow clubs will be there using trails they don't fund Next year buy your pass in the north or stay home and look at grass under your new groomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 You don't buy your pass from the club anymore, so that doesn't really work anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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