FROSTYNUTZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, Poo Man said: Jeez a lot of these threads are turning into pop corn munchers, what's going on around here? Lack of snow, and more time on sled forums, equals more discussion, and varying opinions, which are interesting to read, and digest. I,m kinda shocked at the list price of the the new 600 doo that has just been released. Kinda wonder when sledders will finally say, it is too much money being tied up and lost, for the actual enjoyment gained from participating in this crazy pastime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Looks like no 1200 for 19? 900 Turbo only in long track kind of makes sense to get the power to the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Something tells me that a company the size of BRP does a significant amount of market research about what their customers actually want to see in their products before they go into the development and launch of a new product. Something tells me you are right about there being a market for these Denis. There are lots of people with lots of money. For those the cost is secondary if the product is what they want. Kind of like the guy that bought a $277,000.00 pontoon boat at the boat show. Not for everybody, both boat and price but there is a market. Brp Study results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuyuna Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 55 minutes ago, FROSTYNUTZ said: Lack of snow, and more time on sled forums, equals more discussion, and varying opinions, which are interesting to read, and digest. I,m kinda shocked at the list price of the the new 600 doo that has just been released. Kinda wonder when sledders will finally say, it is too much money being tied up and lost, for the actual enjoyment gained from participating in this crazy pastime. $20,000. Snowmobiles and the Canary In the Coal Mine There was a discussion about this topic last year, at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, snowchopper said: Brp Study results. Based on what they built, this is accurate and flawed. Clearly they hired market planners out of Volkswagen. I prefer the market planning of Ford, GM, or even Dodge. For instance, the CURRENT market asks are for what has been built, a decent powered 4 stroke. Why? That question is not so easy to answer so lets start at the beginning with the RX1 which was a mega shift in market and a massive performer that has pretty much run off with that market share too. So a Volkswagen strategy is to meet it, make it matched up parts wise and go on. A GM/Ford/Dodge strategy is to FIRST beat the competition by raising the performance bar because the true die hard fans of any machinery are on the fringe of performance. Hit that mark with something like the GT Mustang, and then sell the majority of Mustang in the low powered V6 config which is their market strategy. Considering the brand impact and icon legend that goes along with such an approach this is a more powerful long term strategy. Plus if the engine design follows a GM V8 or Ford V8 ( Sorry Dodge, not so much, Cummins saved your trucks ) where you can build a single engine platform on a supply chain designed for years of variations along with HUGE performance upgrade potential by selling in a detuned application it leaves room for the die hards to mod away and be king of the mountain and the average joe trail rider gets a superbly reliable under achieving sled that still is competitive with CURRENT market offerings and thats the double win. Thats how I see it. Building to spec as per data "spot on" is not leading, its following the crumbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYNUTZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Great link. Here,s one of your posts from last year. " Let's make a point to recycle this thread this time next year to compare notes. " Not trying to sound like gloom and doom, but it looks like this winter is again, just as bad as last winter. I,m sure I,ll go to the sled show in Ottawa again this March with my sledding buds, but the interest level in spending 20K, just to have a new sled sitting in the gaage to l00k at, is disappearing quicker than our February thaw. Probably pick up a few new sledding posters for the garage, that should be good enough to curb the waining appetite for a new sled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYNUTZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Power. Response and Handling. What they forgot to add was, " At an affordable price, that will appeal to the masses ". What percentage of the sledding population that are going to get a new sled for 2019 are they going to attract at those ridiculous asking prices ? Is this sled going to be a limited build, like some of their other early releases in previous years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Looks to me that the price is based on a simple metric of miles per dollar. Machines built with rapid turn around like they used to in the 80's at 4k kms and done were a quarter of the price machines are now that will go to 16k Its not a simple purchase price consideration so I can see the price increase making sense. It also speaks to a wall of technology that seems to be nearing an end game ( seems to because true inovation aside from that helmet is small ) more of a combining effort of cross platform engines and four stroke introduction etc. The next BIG move will be drivetrain revolution and it will likely be so huge of a shift that it will cause almost all sledders to shift to. Aside from that the suspensions are all pretty good, durability of chassis is pretty good, Fit and Finish is high and tight these days accross the board. Theres only so many material improvements to be made now that its a game of ounces, not lbs. A good four stroke sled that will run 20k kms without major service might be worth 20k. The market will decide as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, crispy said: Based on what they built, this is accurate and flawed. Clearly they hired market planners out of Volkswagen. I prefer the market planning of Ford, GM, or even Dodge. For instance, the CURRENT market asks are for what has been built, a decent powered 4 stroke. Why? That question is not so easy to answer so lets start at the beginning with the RX1 which was a mega shift in market and a massive performer that has pretty much run off with that market share too. So a Volkswagen strategy is to meet it, make it matched up parts wise and go on. A GM/Ford/Dodge strategy is to FIRST beat the competition by raising the performance bar because the true die hard fans of any machinery are on the fringe of performance. Hit that mark with something like the GT Mustang, and then sell the majority of Mustang in the low powered V6 config which is their market strategy. Considering the brand impact and icon legend that goes along with such an approach this is a more powerful long term strategy. Plus if the engine design follows a GM V8 or Ford V8 ( Sorry Dodge, not so much, Cummins saved your trucks ) where you can build a single engine platform on a supply chain designed for years of variations along with HUGE performance upgrade potential by selling in a detuned application it leaves room for the die hards to mod away and be king of the mountain and the average joe trail rider gets a superbly reliable under achieving sled that still is competitive with CURRENT market offerings and thats the double win. Thats how I see it. Building to spec as per data "spot on" is not leading, its following the crumbs I thought the 5.7 Hemi saved them? To me the only Hemi is a 426. Kind of like the guy that says he's got a 402 BBC in his car. Unless it's numbers matching resto, why not use a 427 or 454? Back to topic, I guess what some of the posters are saying is that BRP needs a 'halo' sled. The vast majority of their loyalists may not be interested in buying 1, but they know the company can build a very high end sled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, snowchopper said: Brp Study results. Thanks for that, us poor slobs in the shop never get out to see this kind of thing ... I'm the last guy to ask what a sled costs .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 12:42 PM, Viperules700 said: That is true. This sled has been at dealer more times then my etec has, in seven years I have owned it. Dealer and skidoo have been good to continue to cover it under warranty though. No codes in last 350 km's, so it seems to be running good now. Maybe wait a year for turbo bugs to be ironed out. 19 hours ago, tricky said: Viper, I feel for you. My '17 Blizzard 900 ACE experience, and every other owner's that I have talked to, has been very good engine performance for a 90 HP sled, coupled with exceptional fuel range. Several fill ups have convinced me that my sled will go 300 km on a full tank, if I ignore the fuel gauge. On a recent trip I filled up after 250+ km. The 'low' warning light had been on for about 25 km. Even with a heavy burping I could only get 34 L of gas in. I have filled after 200 km several times and only been able to squeeze 30-31L into it. That should make it good for 300+ km, no? In direct comparison to friends' 600 etecs, the etecs usually take an extra litre or more on an average 25 L fill up. I hope your sled can get sorted out, because I am so pleased with mine that I doubt I will move back to more HP. Just for reference, I don't baby the thing and have seen an indicated 160 KPH on hard packed northern terrain. Good Luck. It took a season & a half before my 1st year SDI actually ran properly. The initial fuel mapping was brutal. If you looked @ the thing the wrong way when you started it, it would foul a plug. It wouldn't have been so bad if the plugs had been ES style instead of the 'gold plated' ECS electrodes. Re-flash MPEM w/ updated map go 1 heat range hotter on the plugs Use XPS semi-synthetic instead of full synthetic "Oh and you can use 87 octane" OEMs have limited time to get real world testing done & the customers end up being beta testers. They always say, never buy a 1st year model, did I listen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Did BRP get the paint codes from the Johnson & Evinrude sleds when they bought the OMC assets? Just asking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Cummins saved em, Hemi made them. Think 1990ish re cummins As for SkiDoo? Wife says ride the 850 and the turbo back to back and decide. Any way you wanna slice it, Doo still the choice. As for me? Struggling to decide on new boat or new sled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYNUTZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Wonder how many sleds they went thru to get that video completed ? A few good drops and tailbenders in that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Paint codes from tool manufacturers lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 56 minutes ago, snowchopper said: Paint codes from tool manufacturers lol... I never thought of Mikita who sponsors Warnert Racing for that colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I bet that new MXZ 600r will be quite the machine ( but I need a real windshield), I definitely want a better look at that new helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 22 hours ago, FROSTYNUTZ said: Lack of snow, and more time on sled forums, equals more discussion, and varying opinions, which are interesting to read, and digest. I,m kinda shocked at the list price of the the new 600 doo that has just been released. Kinda wonder when sledders will finally say, it is too much money being tied up and lost, for the actual enjoyment gained from participating in this crazy pastime. this sledder said enough this year. so glad I did with the 3 week Muskoka window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 33 minutes ago, Sledguy74 said: I bet that new MXZ 600r will be quite the machine ( but I need a real windshield), I definitely want a better look at that new helmet. You would love etec and new etec suppose to be even better. I would wait a year though, my have some first year bugs. Interested in going to London to take a look. Some company would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Already made plans to go to Barrie and have a look. Just got another email, 2019 Yamaha release date is March 6th Click the image for more details. Copyright © 2018 Yamaha Motor Canada, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you opted in at our website, or through one of our contests or event registrations. Our mailing address is: Yamaha Motor Canada 480 Gordon Baker Rd Toronto, On M2H 3B4 Canada Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 8:40 AM, FROSTYNUTZ said: Hey Craig, where are those great deals ? I might just be crazy enough to buy one. LOL https://www.countrycorners.net/2016-arctic-cat-zr-9000-sno-pro-129-182-mth-inventory.htm?id=1097461&in-stock=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: https://www.countrycorners.net/2016-arctic-cat-zr-9000-sno-pro-129-182-mth-inventory.htm?id=1097461&in-stock=1 That's where our two sleds came from. Scott is excellent to deal with and they sell a huge volume of sleds. They pump out end of season inventory at great prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTYNUTZ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Thanks for the link. These prices are for the 2016 old generation of sleds, basically the same as my 2013, that are already 3, soon to be 4 model years old. If those were 2017 model prices, they would be very enticing, as long as they don,t have all the other add-ons like freight and pdi which adds another thousand or so. It,s to bad that ALL dealers, including truck and auto, could not be forced by law to only publish the OTD prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, FROSTYNUTZ said: Thanks for the link. These prices are for the 2016 old generation of sleds, basically the same as my 2013, that are already 3, soon to be 4 model years old. If those were 2017 model prices, they would be very enticing, as long as they don,t have all the other add-ons like freight and pdi which adds another thousand or so. It,s to bad that ALL dealers, including truck and auto, could not be forced by law to only publish the OTD prices. Next year they will be 2017 stock and prices. Lol. Looked at them a couple of years a go and freight/pdi was extra. Still a good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, FROSTYNUTZ said: Thanks for the link. These prices are for the 2016 old generation of sleds, basically the same as my 2013, that are already 3, soon to be 4 model years old. If those were 2017 model prices, they would be very enticing, as long as they don,t have all the other add-ons like freight and pdi which adds another thousand or so. It,s to bad that ALL dealers, including truck and auto, could not be forced by law to only publish the OTD prices. Expect about 700 to dealer on top, btw 2016 added TEAM clutches, that sled is a solid deal. I would much rather have it than a 150 hp doo 900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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