Nith Valley Sledder Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 What's going to kill the system first, lack of funding or volunteer burn out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, Nith Valley Sledder said: What's going to kill the system first, lack of funding or volunteer burn out? How about lack of snow ? I won't buy 3 trail passes at $250 each to ride 158 Km in the south with two or three weekends to ride. I have to work for a living so I can't live for weeks on end in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR SLEDHEAD Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Rick, shoot me a text or pm here if I can help. Would take me driving time from Toronto only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, zoso said: Tying the permit to registration is not the way to go. Nobody that does not use the trail system should pay for it. We have all been down this road before and many people have varying opinions. There are lots of things that are paid for by others that they never use. Trent Severn Waterway is one. You hear people outside of Toronto that say they will never use the TTC but pay for a subsidy. The cost of the $5.6M ice rink in Ottawa 99% of the population will never see and only read about. Fisheries and Wildlife Management (spend more than hunting and fishing licences bring in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, J Feces said: Doesn’t need to be that complex. I believe permit cost would be reduced and create more funding. I believe it would simplify enforcement. I believe it would create an improved, stronger trail system. We have different opinions on this. That’s ok.... Im out. Work to do. Of course it would bring in more money and would make enforcement easy. It would also ask non users to pay for a system that wealthy people whom are the cheapest whining demographic ever(ofsc trail riders) refuse to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, 02Sled said: We have all been down this road before and many people have varying opinions. There are lots of things that are paid for by others that they never use. Trent Severn Waterway is one. You hear people outside of Toronto that say they will never use the TTC but pay for a subsidy. The cost of the $5.6M ice rink in Ottawa 99% of the population will never see and only read about. Fisheries and Wildlife Management (spend more than hunting and fishing licences bring in) Well my boat registration is not tied to the Trent. Let the OFSC lobby for government funding, then that is fine and not just picking on a select group of non users to finance this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, zoso said: Well my boat registration is not tied to the Trent. Let the OFSC lobby for government funding, then that is fine and not just picking on a select group of non users to finance this system. Your boat registration is no charge however everyone across Canada pays for the Trent and the Rideau. Everyone also pays for Fisheries and Wildlife Management in Ontario even if they aren't hunters or fishermen.... bottom line we agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Your boat registration is no charge however everyone across Canada pays for the Trent and the Rideau. Everyone also pays for Fisheries and Wildlife Management in Ontario even if they aren't hunters or fishermen.... bottom line we agree to disagree The key word is EVERYONE. What you guys are asking is that a small group pay, not the entire population. That is where this falls off the rails. therfe is no logic in this idea, it is insulting to say a guy that lives in an area where there are no OFSC trail that he should pay for it just because he owns a sled. All the other examples you provide have the entire province kicking in, and are all government run entities, not private corps developed for the benefit of only those buying in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Not everyone drives a car but those that do pay a license fee to the province, a gas tax, and now a carbon tax to support roads that many will never drive on. So it's okay for all the non hunter / anglers in Ontario to pay for those that choose to participate in what is for some a sport that goes against their principals. Like I said we agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Not everyone drives a car but those that do pay a license fee to the province, a gas tax, and now a carbon tax to support roads that many will never drive on. So it's okay for all the non hunter / anglers in Ontario to pay for those that choose to participate in what is for some a sport that goes against their principals. Like I said we agree to disagree. We all need roads, where do you think everything people in cities use com es from, air drops? Wildlife management benefits everyone, not just those that hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 We agree to disagree. I really don't need to pay for that middle of nowhere road that goes for miles and has 2 houses at the end of that road. That road doesn't benefit everyone, It benefits those two houses and their friends. Lots of those types of roads in parts of Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, 02Sled said: We agree to disagree. I really don't need to pay for that middle of nowhere road that goes for miles and has 2 houses at the end of that road. That road doesn't benefit everyone, It benefits those two houses and their friends. Lots of those types of roads in parts of Ontario. But we all pay for that, not just you and 10,000 others. If you cannot see the difference there is no helping you. Every point you made is flawed as they all refer to the shared burden of all taxpayers, and not a tiny group of non users exclusively being singled out to support users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 As much as the vehicle sticker / trail pass fee sounds good and an easy thing to manage/impose, Craig is correct. Just look at any lake on the weekend that has lots of residential homes around it, it is full of sleds (mostly older iron) with no permits....all they are doing is riding from their home, down the roads, side streets to the lake to mess around, hit the fishing hut, etc..... Just because you have a sled, does not mean you trail ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, zoso said: But we all pay for that, not just you and 10,000 others. If you cannot see the difference there is no helping you. Every point you made is flawed as they all refer to the shared burden of all taxpayers, and not a tiny group of non users exclusively being singled out to support users. Sorry you can't grasp the similarities. I license my truck. That's only those that choose to buy and operate a vehicle yet my money from that license fee helps maintain that middle of nowhere road that after a few miles of nothing ends at one or two houses. No benefit to me but is to the people in those one or two houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 16 hours ago, RIVERMAN said: Cartwright Dynos snowmobile club has two groomers broken down and has run out of money to fix them . Will they be able to convince O.F.S.C. to cough up for the repairs, or it be another short season here in the south. Posted a call for help on the PPSC FB page early today and did some coordinating with 3 other clubs, and with people answering the request for help on our FB page. Unit was back up and grooming it's way down the trail by 8pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 42 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Sorry you can't grasp the similarities. I license my truck. That's only those that choose to buy and operate a vehicle yet my money from that license fee helps maintain that middle of nowhere road that after a few miles of nothing ends at one or two houses. No benefit to me but is to the people in those one or two houses. LOL, stop being obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Feces Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 6 hours ago, zoso said: Of course it would bring in more money and would make enforcement easy. It would also ask non users to pay for a system that wealthy people whom are the cheapest whining demographic ever(ofsc trail riders) refuse to pay for. Sorry I brought it up. Let’s keep doing what we’re doing. That should work eh...future looks bright... Not sure whom you are referring to about being cheap and whining? I will continue to support the system and buy permits. I do believe it can be better tho. I will also continue to be a supportive landowner that allows the trails for the benefit of all. I guess we all do what we can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 7 hours ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said: Rick, shoot me a text or pm here if I can help. Would take me driving time from Toronto only. Thanks for the offer Rick, got er done before I saw this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Nith Valley Sledder said: What's going to kill the system first, lack of funding or volunteer burn out? Disrespectful sledders ..... I bought a permit .... me me me me I want I want I want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, J Feces said: Sorry I brought it up. Let’s keep doing what we’re doing. That should work eh...future looks bright... Not sure whom you are referring to about being cheap and whining? I will continue to support the system and buy permits. I do believe it can be better tho. I will also continue to be a supportive landowner that allows the trails for the benefit of all. I guess we all do what we can.... When I say sledders are a demographic that is cheap and whine a lot, I am speaking in general about a large portion of permit buyers. Most do not volunteer, and many cry about the price of the permit, and act as though it is expensive. the price should be what it needs to be to make sure funds are there for groomers and fuel, as well as all the other things needed to bring us a trail system that is functioning well without financial stresses. That amount is certainly more than what we are paying now. In 2007 the price for the early permit was 180, now it is 190, add the service charge and we have seen an increase of less than 10% over the past decade plus. Bottom line is sledders are cheap crybabies that will pay 200 for a belt, 200 for carbides, 500 for studs, 15 grand for a sled, but when it comes to a permit they will not pay what is required. Just imagine if the permit buyer was not already getting the gift of 10 million per year in free labor from the 5% of people that volunteer to run the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Since the OFSC is a registered non-profit, has anyone put a request in to see the financials to see where the money is actually going? I believe that some of the financials have to be released on request being that they are a NP. just sensitive and propitiatory information is withheld..Would be nice the see the actual money allocations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 hours ago, zoso said: When I say sledders are a demographic that is cheap and whine a lot, I am speaking in general about a large portion of permit buyers. Most do not volunteer, and many cry about the price of the permit, and act as though it is expensive. the price should be what it needs to be to make sure funds are there for groomers and fuel, as well as all the other things needed to bring us a trail system that is functioning well without financial stresses. That amount is certainly more than what we are paying now. In 2007 the price for the early permit was 180, now it is 190, add the service charge and we have seen an increase of less than 10% over the past decade plus. Bottom line is sledders are cheap crybabies that will pay 200 for a belt, 200 for carbides, 500 for studs, 15 grand for a sled, but when it comes to a permit they will not pay what is required. Just imagine if the permit buyer was not already getting the gift of 10 million per year in free labor from the 5% of people that volunteer to run the system. Looks like many of the 'cheap whiners' may reside on this forum.....getting tired of the doom and gloom attitude. Get on your sled and ride the damn thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIVERMAN Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Well nutter, I worked 30 years as a volunteer for the cartwright dynos making trails cutting brushing building bridges repairing equipment. The other day I came across our groomer operator and I stopped to help out , and his words of frustration were the ones I conveyed . I'm truly sorry I made you jump up on you pedestal in range for something I didn't have a the facts on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 the freedom of expression of opinions is a vital part of democracy without the name calling a differing opinion is healthy the suppression of others opinions is very unhealthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Nutter said: Posted a call for help on the PPSC FB page early today and did some coordinating with 3 other clubs, and with people answering the request for help on our FB page. Unit was back up and grooming it's way down the trail by 8pm Great news, Rick! Thanks for helping to get this done and a bigger thanks for those that stepped up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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