snowman Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, 02Sled said: Because they are perhaps like you said looking for those stolen permits. They can ask me pretty much anything and I don't have anything to hide so can answer pretty much anything. I have been asked where I was coming from once. Rather than be all defensive and saying none of your business it was a pleasant conversation about the conditions of the trail I had been on and similarly they told me what the trails were like ahead. I don't fear them like you seem to do. The few I have met on the trail are great people simply doing a job Agreed, Why be so offensive and abrasive, my experience has ALWAYS been if you give them (or anyone really) attitude you will likey get it returned sometimes 10fold...Mother always told me to treat people like you would like to be treated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave K Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 11 hours ago, zoso said: Do you guys also carry and show police your receipt for your truck sticker? Not a receipt, but we all carry the sticker on the back of the vehicle ownership with the same number as the sticker on the plate has. These numbers match up, so you know it was purchased and not stolen from some other plate. Essentially the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR SLEDHEAD Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I sent an email inquiry from the OFSC site asking whoever reviews incoming emails why it states that we should carry it with us. I also asked if we were legally required to do so. I don't hold much faith in ever seeing a response from the inquiry but worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruteMan Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Well i always carry my phone and on my phone i have access to all of my Emails and in my emails i have the purchase order confirmation, another email of the order and shipping tracking number and the temporary permit link to which i made a PDF of the temp permit and saved it to my emails, With the instructions to print it off and tape it to my sled or carry it digitally (both these emails have the plate # and the vin # in them). if that's not enough for a officer then i'll see them in court and fight it there. Of the documents mailed to me the only document i have that states i have to do anything is to install the sticker front center of windshield or front-top 3/4 of sled hood. not sure why carrying the rest of that paperwork which is mostly advertising is going to help anyone on the trails. This is not the case of a permit transfer and not receiving a new sticker (which is what the topic started out about) but in the primary purchase / vandals ripping it off scenario. If i was riding without a sticker at all because i'm waiting for the transfer to come in then I totally would be carrying all paperwork possible even printing the original 2 week temp permit off no matter if its expired or not and taping it on and explain that the replacement hasn't arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I also carry the paperwork with the instructions of permit placement. Orillia is a city with 33,000 people and 4600 of them are cops. In my years I thought I have heard it all but there always seems to be a new twist. I prove my case on the street because I don't like wasting my time in a court of law. I now carry a brief case with all of my licenses in it. The various bureaucracies tell me that I only need to carry my wallet card. What they don't understand is that every bureaucracy says the same thing. My wallet is not that big. At least one of them CAN give me a $1000.00 fine for not carrying my wallet card. You have to be a Phillidelphia lawyer just to be John Q. Public any more. It would be nice to just go and buy an island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, catinental couch said: I also carry the paperwork with the instructions of permit placement. Orillia is a city with 33,000 people and 4600 of them are cops. In my years I thought I have heard it all but there always seems to be a new twist. I prove my case on the street because I don't like wasting my time in a court of law. I now carry a brief case with all of my licenses in it. The various bureaucracies tell me that I only need to carry my wallet card. What they don't understand is that every bureaucracy says the same thing. My wallet is not that big. At least one of them CAN give me a $1000.00 fine for not carrying my wallet card. You have to be a Phillidelphia lawyer just to be John Q. Public any more. It would be nice to just go and buy an island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoonerBP Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 18 hours ago, zoso said: You are not obligated by law to carry it or to show it. The paperwork is part of the permit, if you do not have it when asked then technically your permit is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, BoonerBP said: The paperwork is part of the permit, if you do not have it when asked then technically your permit is invalid. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Think about all the things people carry these days. Tow straps, zip ties, spare oil, booster cables, duct tape, flashlights, GPS, spare belts, tool kits, spare keys, survival blanket and so on. Bottom line you carry ownership, drivers license and insurance. Whether it is required to or not, carrying an 8.5 X 11 piece of paper likely won't be something you can't find space for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Think about all the things people carry these days. Tow straps, zip ties, spare oil, booster cables, duct tape, flashlights, GPS, spare belts, tool kits, spare keys, survival blanket and so on. Bottom line you carry ownership, drivers license and insurance. Whether it is required to or not, carrying an 8.5 X 11 piece of paper likely won't be something you can't find space for. Ya, we established that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, zoso said: Ya, we established that. And we established you will fight tooth and nail against being asked if you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, 02Sled said: And we established you will fight tooth and nail against being asked if you have it. No, I simply do not have it so there will be no fight just a simple, you do not need to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, zoso said: No, I simply do not have it so there will be no fight just a simple, you do not need to see it. How about something less antagonistic and less attitude like... sorry I don't have it. That would likely be the end of it do you not think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 53 minutes ago, 02Sled said: How about something less antagonistic and less attitude like... sorry I don't have it. That would likely be the end of it do you not think. But I am not sorry, nor should I be. It is already ludicrous that every sled a cop sees they stop, then to have to produce ID for them for absolutely no reason makes it an even bigger hassle, and you expect me to carry and produce paperwork I am not legally obligated to. then apologize for not having it. I think not. This pretty much sums up my position. Like I said, if you choose to appease a cop that asks for things he has no business looking at, then by all means do it. Bring the deed to your home as well, just in case he asks you to prove residency in Canada, because if he is going to ask for paperwork you have no need to carry, god only knows how far he will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, zoso said: But I am not sorry, nor should I be. It is already ludicrous that every sled a cop sees they stop, then to have to produce ID for them for absolutely no reason makes it an even bigger hassle, and you expect me to carry and produce paperwork I am not legally obligated to. then apologize for not having it. I think not. This pretty much sums up my position. Like I said, if you choose to appease a cop that asks for things he has no business looking at, then by all means do it. Bring the deed to your home as well, just in case he asks you to prove residency in Canada, because if he is going to ask for paperwork you have no need to carry, god only knows how far he will go. Agree to disagree I guess... the sorry is just being civil. I don't have a fear of police. They are just people doing a job. I have never yet seen a single situation where every sled a cop sees has been stopped let alone asked to produce ID. Those I came across a couple of weeks ago had you slow down, they saw the right stickers on your sled and gave a thumbs up and off you went without stopping. I recall a few years back when the police were looking for those stolen permits you referred to. They were stolen from on of our neighbouring clubs in our district. We were stopped on a trail that ran alongside the road. They knew the range of consecutive permit numbers they were looking for. The number on mine was close. They checked the number on the permit and you were on your way. I haven't any problem with them checking things if it gets people without a license, perhaps no insurance or better yet a drunk off the trails. God forbid you stop for 3 minutes out of your day if they do ask to see documents. My ownership, insurance and license are all in a folder in my pocket. It takes seconds to pull out. Obviously you fear police interactions. The average person doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruteMan Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 In my short season i have seen a total of 3 times OPP, Stopped only once and all they wanted to know was if i had my stickers on my sled never asked a single thing beyond that besides civil conversation about trail conditions and how our day was going. I find this thread delving into a useless banter of he said, she said,.you should, I will not BS. The primary topic was about the lengthy time it was taking to get replacement / transfers and what someone could do in the meantime. as with everything in "THAT" situation is at your own risk if you ride and there were good suggestions to protect yourself in the event you do ride without the sticker the rest of this is starting to just waste my time reading the thread. Move on if you have nothing more to add to the Original Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, 02Sled said: Agree to disagree I guess... the sorry is just being civil. I don't have a fear of police. They are just people doing a job. I have never yet seen a single situation where every sled a cop sees has been stopped let alone asked to produce ID. Those I came across a couple of weeks ago had you slow down, they saw the right stickers on your sled and gave a thumbs up and off you went without stopping. I recall a few years back when the police were looking for those stolen permits you referred to. They were stolen from on of our neighbouring clubs in our district. We were stopped on a trail that ran alongside the road. They knew the range of consecutive permit numbers they were looking for. The number on mine was close. They checked the number on the permit and you were on your way. I haven't any problem with them checking things if it gets people without a license, perhaps no insurance or better yet a drunk off the trails. God forbid you stop for 3 minutes out of your day if they do ask to see documents. My ownership, insurance and license are all in a folder in my pocket. It takes seconds to pull out. Obviously you fear police interactions. The average person doesn't. I have no fear of police, how you came to that conclusion I have no idea. I am a libertarian, and as such resist the crown over reaching its powers. Police are the representative of the crown and are charged with upholding the laws, not creating their own laws, not asking me questions that are not related to the stop, and not delaying my travel without cause or reason. We have rights in our nation, these rights must be used and defended every single day. make no mistake, if police had their way, they would love to enter our homes for no reason, just to make sure no crimes were being commited. Now, being we are a law abiding family, no crimes are being committed, but that does not mean I will say, as you might, if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about. As far as them catching people with no licence and no insurance, would you be ok with police stopping every single vehicle they see on the road to check, just in case. Fishing expeditions are against our charter of rights, and that is what is being done on trails in Ontario. the average person that rides in Ontario is sick and tired of being stopped every single time a cop sees them. it is not about fear, it is about harassing a group and profiling them as offenders when the fact is very very few people are on OFSC trails while not conforming to all the rules. obviously I follow the rules, I have not had a ticket, even parking for well over 20 years, so of course I have no fear of police, or fear of stopping, or any fears for that matter, what I do have is a desire to live in a free society. The stolen permits were taken from a break in at the Barrie office, not a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, BruteMan said: In my short season i have seen a total of 3 times OPP, Stopped only once and all they wanted to know was if i had my stickers on my sled never asked a single thing beyond that besides civil conversation about trail conditions and how our day was going. I find this thread delving into a useless banter of he said, she said,.you should, I will not BS. The primary topic was about the lengthy time it was taking to get replacement / transfers and what someone could do in the meantime. as with everything in "THAT" situation is at your own risk if you ride and there were good suggestions to protect yourself in the event you do ride without the sticker the rest of this is starting to just waste my time reading the thread. Move on if you have nothing more to add to the Original Post. That is correct, and the simple answer is, just put the sticker on your new sled and do not bother to get a transfer, because police have no business asking for the paperwork. now if the OFSC could do their job, and get these permits out to people in a timely manner, then I guess that would not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, zoso said: That is correct, and the simple answer is, just put the sticker on your new sled and do not bother to get a transfer, because police have no business asking for the paperwork. now if the OFSC could do their job, and get these permits out to people in a timely manner, then I guess that would not be an issue. Response from OFSC regarding my inquiry as to why we need to carry the permit paperwork is as follows: This is what I would call the "ownership" to the permit, this is what the police will need to look at to see that the permit that is on your sled is yours and that it is on the correct sled. Lenisa Customer Service Representative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoonerBP Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, zoso said: Wrong. The paper copy is to be carried so that the police can verify that your vin# matches the permit affixed to the sled. go ahead though and take your chances, me I'll carry the the paper copy of the application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, BruteMan said: In my short season i have seen a total of 3 times OPP, Stopped only once and all they wanted to know was if i had my stickers on my sled never asked a single thing beyond that besides civil conversation about trail conditions and how our day was going. I find this thread delving into a useless banter of he said, she said,.you should, I will not BS. The primary topic was about the lengthy time it was taking to get replacement / transfers and what someone could do in the meantime. as with everything in "THAT" situation is at your own risk if you ride and there were good suggestions to protect yourself in the event you do ride without the sticker the rest of this is starting to just waste my time reading the thread. Move on if you have nothing more to add to the Original Post. Or you could just stop reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, BoonerBP said: The paper copy is to be carried so that the police can verify that your vin# matches the permit affixed to the sled. go ahead though and take your chances, me I'll carry the the paper copy of the application Police have no authority to demand that paperwork. There is nothing in the MSVA that states it must be carried. You are mistaken. Where did you read this, on facebook? Certainly not in the MSVA, because it is not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoonerBP Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 How else are they to verify your permit wasn't stolen and is in fact registered to the sled you are operating. it is similar to your ownership and the val tag matching your sled. No I did not read this on Facebook, it was always part of the fine print on the older permits. As well I just finished my third driver training course this year and it is part of the program we teach to the kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, BoonerBP said: How else are they to verify your permit wasn't stolen and is in fact registered to the sled you are operating. it is similar to your ownership and the val tag matching your sled. No I did not read this on Facebook, it was always part of the fine print on the older permits. As well I just finished my third driver training course this year and it is part of the program we teach to the kids I do not care how else, not my problem. Call the OFSC, cross reference number with any stolen permit report, but not by me producing paperwork to prove I did not commit a crime. Again, you do not need to produce it, end of discussion, you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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