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Replacement of Damaged Permit


freddydoo

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1 hour ago, There's a Blizzard coming said:

Someone posted and said they where working as fast as they could being only one office in Ontario. That was not my point. Why do passes only have to be bought online from OFSC?  Dealers, Clubs, local business liked selling the passes and transfer passes. It brings customers into the very businesses we depend on for local club support. In the past I could have taken my old pass into home hardware and had a new pass in half an hour, no computer required. OFSC wants all the control and they are not equipped to handle it.  And we never had to add $7.50 to every pass we bought locally. Those places got nothing for selling permits. 

Somerimes it really is better to have things done the old way. 

TABC  this has been a much discussed issue on a number of threads on this and other forums over the past couple of years (do a search to view).

The simple answer is that a few years ago the Board Of Governors of the OFSC thought it prudent to get into bed with the Ministry of Transportation. The thought stream if I remember correctly was so that the OFSC would be able to access more funding directly from the government. Well, obviously that didn't happen and now the OFSC is a puppet on strings when it comes to enforcement, how permits are handled and permit pricing in the province.

IMHO from a simplicity standpoint the sooner we can purchase our permits at Service Ontario the better when it comes to replacement permits.

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2 hours ago, Yukon Cornelious said:

Jeff (Lucrestyle) Mcgirr from Bonfield.....

 

Jeff was previously employed with the OFSC out of Barrie and developed the original ITG and isnowmobile app during its first roll out.  He has beeen gone for several years and now works for Yamaha Canada and volunteers with his club locally...

Jeff actually understood things better and had much better expertise than what we see today since the old ITG actually worked if he is the person I am thinking of.  It may even have been him that picked up the servers I donated long ago. I kind of felt sorry for them when they were excited about getting hardware that was for an enterprise environment considered scrap. They deserve and need current technology to work with.  The people now don't seem to be too savvy in technology.

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2 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

TABC  this has been a much discussed issue on a number of threads on this and other forums over the past couple of years (do a search to view).

The simple answer is that a few years ago the Board Of Governors of the OFSC thought it prudent to get into bed with the Ministry of Transportation. The thought stream if I remember correctly was so that the OFSC would be able to access more funding directly from the government. Well, obviously that didn't happen and now the OFSC is a puppet on strings when it comes to enforcement, how permits are handled and permit pricing in the province.

IMHO from a simplicity standpoint the sooner we can purchase our permits at Service Ontario the better when it comes to replacement permits.

It was decades ago not a few years. the driving force was so police could enforce the permit on private property, they otherwise could not. The MOT had nothing to do with online only sales, that decision rests alone on the OFSC.

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6 minutes ago, zoso said:

It was decades ago not a few years. the driving force was so police could enforce the permit on private property, they otherwise could not. The MOT had nothing to do with online only sales, that decision rests alone on the OFSC.

You may be correct on the # of years although I don't think it would hit decades plural.. I would agree that the OFSC had involvement in the online decision but I believe the MTO was involved in steering that direction.

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3 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

You may be correct on the # of years although I don't think it would hit decades plural.. I would agree that the OFSC had involvement in the online decision but I believe the MTO was involved in steering that direction.

It was 1990, so 28 years ago. The online only had nothing to do with MTO, nothing. They never demanded we stop selling through clubs, the OFSC did demand clubs stop selling online first, then took it a step further and took control of all the sales. Just one more step in marginalizing volunteers and centralizing the control and power. In the future they will be dictating when and where groomers run.

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28 minutes ago, zoso said:

It was 1990, so 28 years ago. The online only had nothing to do with MTO, nothing. They never demanded we stop selling through clubs, the OFSC did demand clubs stop selling online first, then took it a step further and took control of all the sales. Just one more step in marginalizing volunteers and centralizing the control and power. In the future they will be dictating when and where groomers run.

You are obviously thinking about something different that  happened in 1990 (possibly the  SNO TRAC $14,000.00 provincial grant)  than what I am speaking of.

What I was speaking about was the "deal with the devil" as it was called by many and that sir happened in 2001/2002  (see below)

Ontario bill 101 mumbo jumbo - Snowmobile World : Your #1 ...

www.snowmobileworld.com/...snowmobiling/2941-ontario-bill-101-mumbo-jumbo.h...
  1.  
Apr 10, 2002 - 10 posts - ‎5 authors

People have said that the Ontario government has supported the OFSC with *a lot of money. I can't disagree with that. But, the way things have gone in Ontario this year, it would appear the OFSC has made a deal with the devil, with limited benefits (to the naked eye) for the averagesnowmobile. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

You are obviously thinking about something different that  happened in 1990 (possibly the  SNO TRAC $14,000.00 provincial grant)  than what I am speaking of.

What I was speaking about was the "deal with the devil" as it was called by many and that sir happened in 2001/2002  (see below)

Ontario bill 101 mumbo jumbo - Snowmobile World : Your #1 ...

www.snowmobileworld.com/...snowmobiling/2941-ontario-bill-101-mumbo-jumbo.h...
  1.  
Apr 10, 2002 - 10 posts - ‎5 authors

People have said that the Ontario government has supported the OFSC with *a lot of money. I can't disagree with that. But, the way things have gone in Ontario this year, it would appear the OFSC has made a deal with the devil, with limited benefits (to the naked eye) for the averagesnowmobile. 

 

 

Got it, thanks.

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Oh Boy just bought a sled on the weekend and looking to transfer permit from current sled,from what I have read

I don't think it will be happening this week,so now what

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16 minutes ago, cravesledding said:

Oh Boy just bought a sled on the weekend and looking to transfer permit from current sled,from what I have read

I don't think it will be happening this week,so now what

Start the process ASAP and keep your old permit and copies of the paperwork with you when riding until you get the new one. Wouldn't hurt to have a copy of the quote above in this thread from the OFSC trying to explain the delay. Any reasonable officer would accept those IMHO.

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We were stopped by OPP this weekend during the Poker Run in stonecliffe and i inquired as to what they thought on this matter of the long delays for permits and transfers and they said exactly that carry proof of purchase and do your best to have all documents presentable as proof and they wouldn't bother you but they would possibly delay you more to review the paperwork to verify it then they would if they could see the permit sticker. All they did with us was check for OFSC stickers and plate stickers no ownership or insurance requests. Not saying every officer you encounter will be the same but these 2 were experienced in snowmobiling (they didn't know crap about sleds but they have been patrolling trails for about 8 years they said) 

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5 hours ago, BruteMan said:

We were stopped by OPP this weekend during the Poker Run in stonecliffe and i inquired as to what they thought on this matter of the long delays for permits and transfers and they said exactly that carry proof of purchase and do your best to have all documents presentable as proof and they wouldn't bother you but they would possibly delay you more to review the paperwork to verify it then they would if they could see the permit sticker. All they did with us was check for OFSC stickers and plate stickers no ownership or insurance requests. Not saying every officer you encounter will be the same but these 2 were experienced in snowmobiling (they didn't know crap about sleds but they have been patrolling trails for about 8 years they said) 

Good info. I would like to think most cops are more than willing to see that you are doing the right thing and not fine you. Even though, by the letter of the law they could, and you would be guilty.

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This will always confuse me for several reasons.

I went to MTO site and spent a long time there reading rules. I don't see one mention of you having to have an OFSC pass on your sled. It does have rules when it comes to snowmobiles and roads etc.

In years gone by OPP have said,"  I don't care about a pass, It's not my jurisdiction. I care if you have proper Lisence and registration?"

 

I think OFSC would like it that way but I am not convinced it's law. I believe tha'ts why OFSC stop officers attend when OPP have stop checks.

 

I do the web site for a local club and have for 15 years approx. OFSC dictates what and where we put stuff on every local club. And that is wrong. I am a volunteer for my local club and I sure don't work for OFSC. Thats why when you go to a local club web site you see all the links taking veiwer back to OFSC site. Just check next time you visit a local club site.

 

I know we need passes etc to survive but OFSC has taken things to a whole new level. Are you aware that OFSC does not support Volunteer of the year program anymore?  Like really? A five dollar pin for hundreds of hours of volunteering when OFSC people get paid. Thats my rant. It was better in the old days. Just saying!!!

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10 minutes ago, There's a Blizzard coming said:

This will always confuse me for several reasons.

I went to MTO site and spent a long time there reading rules. I don't see one mention of you having to have an OFSC pass on your sled. It does have rules when it comes to snowmobiles and roads etc.

In years gone by OPP have said,"  I don't care about a pass, It's not my jurisdiction. I care if you have proper Lisence and registration?"

 

I think OFSC would like it that way but I am not convinced it's law. I believe tha'ts why OFSC stop officers attend when OPP have stop checks.

 

I do the web site for a local club and have for 15 years approx. OFSC dictates what and where we put stuff on every local club. And that is wrong. I am a volunteer for my local club and I sure don't work for OFSC. Thats why when you go to a local club web site you see all the links taking veiwer back to OFSC site. Just check next time you visit a local club site.

 

I know we need passes etc to survive but OFSC has taken things to a whole new level. Are you aware that OFSC does not support Volunteer of the year program anymore?  Like really? A five dollar pin for hundreds of hours of volunteering when OFSC people get paid. Thats my rant. It was better in the old days. Just saying!!!

look up Motorized Snow Vehicle Act regarding permits and licensing regulations...

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TABC just so you know, our liberal Ontario government put an end to the STOP officer program. Apparently too many union complaints by our police forces. 

It seems that this year most police stops that I have read about have been checking for permits and laying charges for lack thereof. Seems they may finally have been given some direction from above. Wonderful news as far as I am concerned.

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Well the guys that stopped us were specifically looking for OFSC stickers we all have one so i did not witness what they would do if you didn't have one...... so if they didn't care about permit stickers why look for them.... think there's some misinformation out there... both your licence reg sticker and the OFSC stickers are property of the MTO and the OPP are the only enforcement agency for the MTO. Patrollers (stop officers etc) apparently have the ability to charge trespassing but can't do crap about the actual sticker only the cops can.

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On 2018-01-21 at 2:21 PM, There's a Blizzard coming said:

Someone posted and said they where working as fast as they could being only one office in Ontario. That was not my point. Why do passes only have to be bought online from OFSC?  Dealers, Clubs, local business liked selling the passes and transfer passes. It brings customers into the very businesses we depend on for local club support. In the past I could have taken my old pass into home hardware and had a new pass in half an hour, no computer required. OFSC wants all the control and they are not equipped to handle it.  And we never had to add $7.50 to every pass we bought locally. Those places got nothing for selling permits. 

Somerimes it really is better to have things done the old way. 

Actually they don't.   I sold approx 75-100 permits at my shop every year and it was the biggest PITA around.   People want to pay with VISA and take up a bunch of your time when you are dealing with paying customers.    Every dealer I talk to says they don't miss selling permits.   

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43 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

TABC just so you know, our liberal Ontario government put an end to the STOP officer program. Apparently too many union complaints by our police forces. 

It seems that this year most police stops that I have read about have been checking for permits and laying charges for lack thereof. Seems they may finally have been given some direction from above. Wonderful news as far as I am concerned.

I believe there has been some direction from the OPP Deputy Commissioner to increase their presence. He is also a snowmobiler.

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All good information and different perspectives.  I was only going by 3 businesses that complained to me specifically about not being able to sell passes and their reasons why.

Its hard I guess to please everyone.

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14 minutes ago, zoso said:

You are not obligated by law to carry it or to show it.

OK you stand and try to convince the officer of that and I'll be enjoying my ride.

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28 minutes ago, scottyr said:

Actually they don't.   I sold approx 75-100 permits at my shop every year and it was the biggest PITA around.   People want to pay with VISA and take up a bunch of your time when you are dealing with paying customers.    Every dealer I talk to says they don't miss selling permits.   

Well the 3 dealers I have in my club catchment all gladly sold permits for us for a number of years. Everyone of them have told me that they would gladly take permits again. Yes part of the reason was it brought traffic into the store for those impulse buys but more to the fact that they were giving back to the club/sport. All 3 dealers were cash only and it was never a problem for them or the customer. 

 

If it was such a PITA why would you not just decline to be a selling outlet? 

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6 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

OK you stand and try to convince the officer of that and I'll be enjoying my ride.

I've never been asked to show the paperwork for my trail permit and don't recall seeing anywhere that says I need to. Do you have something that says you do.

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7 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

Well the 3 dealers I have in my club catchment all gladly sold permits for us for a number of years. Everyone of them have told me that they would gladly take permits again. Yes part of the reason was it brought traffic into the store for those impulse buys but more to the fact that they were giving back to the club/sport. All 3 dealers were cash only and it was never a problem for them or the customer. 

 

If it was such a PITA why would you not just decline to be a selling outlet? 

I typically picked up our permits at the sled show but occasionally went to the local sled dealer to get them. Thinking back I don't recall a time when going to a dealer to get trail permits that I didn't end up picking up some impulse items as well.

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7 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

OK you stand and try to convince the officer of that and I'll be enjoying my ride.

Not to hijack this thread but what would be your recourse in this situation. You have your permit affixed properly to the sled. Your licence, cal tag and insurance is all in order. You do not have the purchase receipt from the permit with name/address /sled details. The officer writes you a ticket for not having the receipt. Not sure what section of the MSVA he would quote because like Zoso has stated it’s not required. You plead not guilty and go to court. The judge is going to throw this out as there is no law requiring the receipt. Can you counter claim for lost time/ expenses of going to court for a charge that never should have laid in the first place. 

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