Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
signfan

E-tec 2 reliability and Gen 4

Recommended Posts

So now that the 17's are a year old how is everyone finding the motor for reliability?  Anyone got 20,000 km on one?  Anyone blew theirs up yet?  After switching to the 4 strokes doo's I'm having a hard time buying this line that these motors will last as long.  Even if they are as good on gas they aren't as quiet.  Do you think we will see a 4 stroke in the Gen 4 platform next winter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont count on a 4 stroke in a G4 just yet..imo... I  know of a few guys that have over 15,000kms on 850s. No issues..Also im finding my 850 trumps my 1200 on fuel mileage. Time will tell with my 850. Now  if Doo turbos a 1200 or 900 ace, i WILL consider another snow check.. From what i can see to fit a 1200 or 900 into a G4, a few side panel mods will be needed etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I read on Doo Talk, and Hardcore Sledder forums last year, there were a dozen or so that had connecting rod failures and cut the crankcase apart.  Most were in New Brunswick were there was lots of snow.  One guy, Poncho, was on this forum.  The failure rendered the engine to boat anchor status. The yellow guys don't want to talk about it.  The failures were probably from habitual wide open throttle abuse.

 

Found some stuck throttle crashes.    http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/1242-g4-platform/1783810-etec-850-stuck-throttle.html

 

BP

Edited by Big Pussy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Issue was with the rod bolts... torque or strength issue. Limited number of failures. If you made it past break in you were good to go.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The throttle issue sounds very serious. Seems many have had it happen and it is going to kill someone. not sure I would want to ride the thing at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those throttle sticking issues are from guys pounding the snot out of their sleds in powder and parking them hot in a cold environment without letting them dry out properly. I don't lend credence to such stories. 

 

Every one of these instances the operator never did a proper check of the unit prior to startup.  Throttle operation and proper throttle return, set parking brake, attach tether cord to himself, etc.  

 

Buddy started his Summit didn't check throttle, it promptly stuck and ran into a brick wall. No throttle check, no tether, no parking brake.  $1500 because he didn't do his job as an operator. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Denis007 said:

Those throttle sticking issues are from guys pounding the snot out of their sleds in powder and parking them hot in a cold environment without letting them dry out properly. I don't lend credence to such stories. 

 

Every one of these instances the operator never did a proper check of the unit prior to startup.  Throttle operation and proper throttle return, set parking brake, attach tether cord to himself, etc.  

 

Buddy started his Summit didn't check throttle, it promptly stuck and ran into a brick wall. No throttle check, no tether, no parking brake.  $1500 because he didn't do his job as an operator. 

Wow.  That's what Ski doo's running with?  Doubt that's gonna hold up in court.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can only remove so much material to shed weight before said vehicle just fails completely. Toaster Ovens imo lol 

F5EEA67E-399D-4D6A-950B-27FDC505278E.jpeg

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FrostyTheSnowman said:

You can only remove so much material to shed weight before said vehicle just fails completely. Toaster Ovens imo lol 

F5EEA67E-399D-4D6A-950B-27FDC505278E.jpeg

Did this happen while the sled was being or was trying to be towed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, signfan said:

Wow.  That's what Ski doo's running with?  Doubt that's gonna hold up in court.

 

No, but that's what I'm saying.  Probably very much the case too.  We have incidents where throttles stick, usually just after guys run hard in powder, sled sucks snow into the airbox, it freezes, etc..  Snow gets sucked into the clutches, filling the engine area, it only melts some of it from ambient heat, the rest freezes there.  It's just common sense, which is not so common.  The ones you read stories about, are the ones stirring the pot.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are these sleds drive by wire ?  (Potentiometer throttle lever/stepper motor throttle body).   Lever sticks or throttle body sticks once engine is started ?

 

My sleds never see a heated garage after a ride.  One morning in Bonfield, the cable was frozen on the Wildcat.  With a hard cable, I could not open the throttle in the first place.  I had to thaw it out with a hair dryer and fill the cable with WD40 to dry it out.  The ice was in the lowest loop of the cable as expected.  That was the only incident I remember in my life.  Can't run away if you can't open the throttle.

 

In a drive by wire system, you can check the lever/potentiometer to see if it is free, but THERE IS NO WAY to check the throttle body/stepper motor for freedom.  Once started, the stepper motor may be able to crack the butterflies but not re-close them.  In this scenario, how could the operator be at fault ?

 

I am surprised there have not been more problems with cars and trucks with this system.  I have one and have wondered.

 

BP

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately it's up to the manufacturers to ensure there systems work.  I know of one case where a 900 ace drove through a guys garage door on startup.  From what I heard BRP looked after all repair costs and no one was hurt.  With this said there has been very little chatter about throttle issues on any of BRP's sleds.   I don't believe they have an issue.  There will always be the odd isolated incident with any manufacturer.  If they did have a real problem there would be recalls to address snow ingestion, or whatever the root cause of the problem was.  This topic wasn't intended to bash BRP.  I'm a big fan  with 2 900 aces in the driveway.  Just curious on everyone's thoughts on what's next from them.  Are they gonna abandon the 4 strokes claiming there 2 strokes are as reliable?  Or do we get a new motor / modified chassis?

Edited by signfan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BP, the 2 strokes are all cable operated. Only the 4 strokes are drive by wire.  When you wake up the ecm and put the kill switch on (engine not running), you'll hear the throttle plate move in the throttle body when you play with the throttle.... when connected to the laptop at least. Maybe someone will chime in as to whether it works at home ...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes sense Denis, since a battery would be required to make the ECM and stepper motor work.  In that case, an auto stuck stepper motor test could be done before starting could be allowed.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to wait for new 600 etec 2 coming out next year. Suppose to be 30 percent faster throttle response, 5 percent more horsepower and 10 percent better fuel economy then current etec 600. I have been very impressed with this motor and will buy another 600, before a four stroke no doubt. Etec still beats 900 in fuel economy, and this new one will be even further ahead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta say that "fuel economy" is not that critical to me,  given varying conditions and weather. What is critical is having a large enough fuel tank to ensure 100+ mile range in any conditions.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Denis007 said:

Those throttle sticking issues are from guys pounding the snot out of their sleds in powder and parking them hot in a cold environment without letting them dry out properly. I don't lend credence to such stories. 

 

Every one of these instances the operator never did a proper check of the unit prior to startup.  Throttle operation and proper throttle return, set parking brake, attach tether cord to himself, etc.  

 

Buddy started his Summit didn't check throttle, it promptly stuck and ran into a brick wall. No throttle check, no tether, no parking brake.  $1500 because he didn't do his job as an operator. 

Riding a sled in powder, then stopping for lunch is a pretty normal thing to do on a sled. There are  many instances of this being reported, and without a doubt there is an issue here. I do not have to check to see if my throttle is jammed open, because my 10 year old sled has a device that prevents it from running if the throttle is open but the lever is not being depressed by the operator. One guy reported his kid pushed the starter, sled fired up and took off. Any way you look at it, this should never happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Cuyuna said:

Gotta say that "fuel economy" is not that critical to me,  given varying conditions and weather. What is critical is having a large enough fuel tank to ensure 100+ mile range in any conditions.

That is true with doo's think mine is 42 litres I believe. Etec 600 has a perfect range of 350 km's. Went 114 km's on Tuesday on 11 litres of fuel in a variety of trail conditions. 900 has been disappointing used 14 litres in same distance on Tuesday. Was suppose to be better then etec on fuel. Last year it almost  ran out of fuel when etec had above a quarter tank left (same tank size I believe , that was after 250 km's). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Did this happen while the sled was being or was trying to be towed?

Lol. I don’t know. All I know is I have heard of bulkheads cracking on the g4 doos. The yellow dudes don’t want to talk about that either. I remember 3 friends with 97 mxz 670’s new back then and all three bent tunnels within the first season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

xs models are 40 L gas tank and g4 is 36 L

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Viperules700 said:

I am going to wait for new 600 etec 2 coming out next year. Suppose to be 30 percent faster throttle response, 5 percent more horsepower and 10 percent better fuel economy then current etec 600. I have been very impressed with this motor and will buy another 600, before a four stroke no doubt. Etec still beats 900 in fuel economy, and this new one will be even further ahead. 

They released a g4 chassis 600 e-tec 2 days ago.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, FrostyTheSnowman said:

Lol. I don’t know. All I know is I have heard of bulkheads cracking on the g4 doos. The yellow dudes don’t want to talk about that either. I remember 3 friends with 97 mxz 670’s new back then and all three bent tunnels within the first season. 

The cracked bulkheads were from the mountain guys hitting hidden rocks and trees. No reports have been made on flatland sleds(groomed trails). And your buddies that bent their tunnels must think they were Blair Morgan back in the day.:lol:  

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Viperules700 said:

900 has been disappointing used 14 litres in same distance on Tuesday.

I will shed a tear for you.  My T-Cat did 101 km on 32 liters of fuel on Sunday.  That's 9 mpg imperial.  Next you will want a Mr. Fusion to run on banana peals and bear cans.

 

I changed the helix on Friday so it should be back to 12 mpg imperial, the best its ever been.  Now that is a challenge to find gas these days up north.

 

BP

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, FrostyTheSnowman said:

Lol. I don’t know. All I know is I have heard of bulkheads cracking on the g4 doos. The yellow dudes don’t want to talk about that either. I remember 3 friends with 97 mxz 670’s new back then and all three bent tunnels within the first season. 

Maybe, just maybe, this says more about the 3 friends than the sleds? 

Seeing how some machines are treated and abused, can't always blame the equipment. Some people can bust an anvil.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Crow said:

Maybe, just maybe, this says more about the 3 friends than the sleds? 

Seeing how some machines are treated and abused, can't always blame the equipment. Some people can bust an anvil.

Thought they were great sleds. I had a 1998 formula z 583, that held up really well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×