BruteMan Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Mazinaw Powerline Snowmobile Club just reported on FB getting their IH stuck in the mud this is like the 5th report ive seen in the last month or so these new groomers seem a bit too heavy a lot of clubs are afraid to use them as they are all getting them stuck like this. Guess this is a case where bigger is not better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Probably a pain to un hook the drag too. I bet it would climb out without the drag and or using a pulley system off one of the trees tied to track that is stuck in mud: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 They are supposed to be heavy. They are a farm tractor designed to have enough traction to pull a 5-6 furrow plow through the ground and not just sit there and spin the tires. Maybe a bad idea to use as a groomer. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I think each groomer has its ups and downs. Definitely think there is a time and place for each unit to be used..i would definitely not make a 'first' pass in that thing at the beginning of each season in questionable areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I see cochrane chose wisely. Open all trails first with the other groomers, then send in the big dog once the ground is like a rock.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, BruteMan said: this is like the 5th report ive seen in the last month or so these new groomers seem a bit too heavy a lot of clubs are afraid to use them as they are all getting them stuck like this. I wonder if the "other" groomers would have gotten through all those 5 spots without issue. No doubt the Case IH is heavier but the other ones get stuck at times to. The "others " have more track surface on the snow so less pounds per square inch on the surface which is no doubt an advantage. The Case IH should be easier to get service and parts for in any area with tractor dealers. There's advantages and disadvantages to both IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: I wonder if the "other" groomers would have gotten through all those 5 spots without issue. No doubt the Case IH is heavier but the other ones get stuck at times to. The "others " have more track surface on the snow so less pounds per square inch on the surface which is no doubt an advantage. The Case IH should be easier to get service and parts for in any area with tractor dealers. There's advantages and disadvantages to both IMO. Exactly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruteMan Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Yea but some clubs with the reduction of groomers across the boards have lost their "other groomers" and for some that's a new Case IH starting to make sense why there's so much red in areas with more snow than other areas that are yellow already tho if that's their only groomer then i guess they need the right conditions to get out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Bruteman, you could be right. I had a lengthy conversation with the ofsc treasurer at the sled show in october about the new case groomers. Yes they got a decent bang for their buck, but the distribution of groomers to each club should not just be based on that. Some clubs need the huskys, some will be ok with the new cases. Far as i am concerned the groomer movement to each club should be based on each clubs needs. Trail kms, terrain etc. Not just solely based on the almighty dollar. It was quite the conversation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, IQ TURBO said: Bruteman, you could be right. I had a lengthy conversation with the ofsc treasurer at the sled show in october about the new case groomers. Yes they got a decent bang for their buck, but the distribution of groomers to each club should not just be based on that. Some clubs need the huskys, some will be ok with the new cases. Far as i am concerned the groomer movement to each club should be based on each clubs needs. Trail kms, terrain etc. Not just solely based on the almighty dollar. It was quite the conversation.. Colour wouldn't likely mean as much to the treasurer as the buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruteMan Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Well I'm glad our guys got the new PB that things been great our problem around here has been the wet bogs they just refuse to freeze up and Devils Hole on way to Calabogies still flowing its the primary link to everything can't really get anywhere till that sucker freezes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, BruteMan said: Well I'm glad our guys got the new PB that things been great our problem around here has been the wet bogs they just refuse to freeze up and Devils Hole on way to Calabogies still flowing its the primary link to everything can't really get anywhere till that sucker freezes up. Alot of clubs in similar boat i would imagine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Im interested to know who decides what club gets either a case, new husky, new PB etc. Interesting stuff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 It all comes down to being purpose built. Yes Tractors are heavy but are cheaper. If used for logging roads, railbed and fields or meadows they are quite good for that purpose. If in forests, swampy areas or areas with hills and terrain. A purpose built snow groomer as a P.B , BR, husky or trooper are more practical... All have pros and cons, it comes down to what each individual clubs needs are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Colour wouldn't likely mean as much to the treasurer as the buck. Wonder how many nice case leather jackets there are.... I know not nice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, IQ TURBO said: Im interested to know who decides what club gets either a case, new husky, new PB etc. Interesting stuff.. The district board and the club designated for replacement request the practical desired unit. They don't always get what they want, but for the most part they do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Yukon Cornelious said: The district board and the club designated for replacement request the practical desired unit. They don't always get what they want, but for the most part they do.... There you have it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt17 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I know in our district (D15) it was discussed and decided that any trail where there was a risk of sinking/stuck were to be packed with an OEM snow unit first before the tractors rolled out. I believe that Cochrane is the only club with a 4 track unit the rest 2-track conversions. Most clubs in our district have a combination of 1 OEM unit/1 tractor and I feel that up here that could be a winning combination in terms of purchase cost, performance and operating costs (my current frustrations with a new to us sur-trac unit not withstanding). The clubs with only 1 unit are a mix between OEM units and Tractors. As a group it was decided that neighbouring clubs would assist those with just a tractor to pack their trail in the same order of importance as their trails (Own TOP trails-neighbour TOP trails-Own Local etc) With our temps up here once things freeze they are solid, especially with the temps we have this year there the tractor could shine. As a single unit for a club or in areas where the frost penetration is not as reliable I am sure it could/would be frustrating and certainly limit the season length. Also from my understanding of how OFSC funding is it is great to say pack with sleds/argos ect, and it works, but packing with a groomer unit is paid grooming time using smaller equipment comes from clubs budget which can create some discrepancies in funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Yukon Cornelious said: It all comes down to being purpose built. Yes Tractors are heavy but are cheaper. If used for logging roads, railbed and fields or meadows they are quite good for that purpose. If in forests, swampy areas or areas with hills and terrain. A purpose built snow groomer as a P.B , BR, husky or trooper are more practical... All have pros and cons, it comes down to what each individual clubs needs are... Exactly! Pretty sure there isn't a 1 size fits all groomer. Like has been posted before, lots of marshy/boggy areas that have to be packed down before any grooming can commence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, matt17 said: I know in our district (D15) it was discussed and decided that any trail where there was a risk of sinking/stuck were to be packed with an OEM snow unit first before the tractors rolled out. I believe that Cochrane is the only club with a 4 track unit the rest 2-track conversions. Most clubs in our district have a combination of 1 OEM unit/1 tractor and I feel that up here that could be a winning combination in terms of purchase cost, performance and operating costs (my current frustrations with a new to us sur-trac unit not withstanding). The clubs with only 1 unit are a mix between OEM units and Tractors. As a group it was decided that neighbouring clubs would assist those with just a tractor to pack their trail in the same order of importance as their trails (Own TOP trails-neighbour TOP trails-Own Local etc) With our temps up here once things freeze they are solid, especially with the temps we have this year there the tractor could shine. As a single unit for a club or in areas where the frost penetration is not as reliable I am sure it could/would be frustrating and certainly limit the season length. Also from my understanding of how OFSC funding is it is great to say pack with sleds/argos ect, and it works, but packing with a groomer unit is paid grooming time using smaller equipment comes from clubs budget which can create some discrepancies in funding. Every club could be given 25% rate of regular grooming for packing with a cat groomer special type machine and for limited hours early season only. This may encourage clubs to buy and maintain such a machine, a machine that would also be very useful in the maintenance of trails across the entire season. Perhaps this is worthy of further discussion. The groomer special works very well, can be bought used for as little as $6k not including the drag, and even new fully loaded is under $30k. these machines can run for thousands of hours and last years and years with very low costs to maintain. The fact that the ofsc will not fund them is what is keeping them off the trails. The end result if clubs were to pack with these machines would be more trail opened sooner, less cost to get it open, and less damage to the expensive heavy grooming equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 hours ago, BruteMan said: Mazinaw Powerline Snowmobile Club just reported on FB getting their IH stuck in the mud this is like the 5th report ive seen in the last month or so these new groomers seem a bit too heavy a lot of clubs are afraid to use them as they are all getting them stuck like this. Guess this is a case where bigger is not better! Pics taken from the Sno Voyageurs page. Groomer was stuck in the Hydro field just before Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Tractors are for farmers. Period. Any grooming use for a tractor should ONLY be done once trails have been properly packed and frozen using specialty equipment. Northern Ontario is unforgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, matt17 said: .... Also from my understanding of how OFSC funding is it is great to say pack with sleds/argos ect, and it works, but packing with a groomer unit is paid grooming time using smaller equipment comes from clubs budget which can create some discrepancies in funding. Matt17 you are partially correct. If a club is using the industrial groomrer to pack and open trails and the assigned gps unit is active those hours are included in the EQ funding calculation at a rate of $58. Per hr this season. The caveat is when those hours occurred. There is a not so well know caveat in the EQ formula, which was passed by the BoG in 2015, which states that only hours recorded between Dec 1 and Mar 31 will be counted for funding. Now I have been following the PBR Club, which I believe is D-15, on Facebook since November. As I read their FB postings they had Groomers rolling since mid November and logging significant hours. And while I applaud the effort to get an early start, I hope they understood those hours are not being compensated for in EQ funding. Therefore they have to fund that work from other sources. If getting trails packed prior to Dec 1 is a priority, then maybe the use of other smaller/lighter equipment might be a more cost effective method with a lower risk of getting something stuck/sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 If you look at the track depth/pattern on the new tractors its not very aggressive due to the fact that for their intended purpose they are supposed to be low impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signfan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Big Pete said: Matt17 you are partially correct. If a club is using the industrial groomrer to pack and open trails and the assigned gps unit is active those hours are included in the EQ funding calculation at a rate of $58. Per hr this season. The caveat is when those hours occurred. There is a not so well know caveat in the EQ formula, which was passed by the BoG in 2015, which states that only hours recorded between Dec 1 and Mar 31 will be counted for funding. Now I have been following the PBR Club, which I believe is D-15, on Facebook since November. As I read their FB postings they had Groomers rolling since mid November and logging significant hours. And while I applaud the effort to get an early start, I hope they understood those hours are not being compensated for in EQ funding. Therefore they have to fund that work from other sources. If getting trails packed prior to Dec 1 is a priority, then maybe the use of other smaller/lighter equipment might be a more cost effective method with a lower risk of getting something stuck/sunk. That is pure BS. If it snows before dec 1st it doesn't count. If the season runs late into April it doesn't count. Come on. Ridiculous. I'd fight this tooth and nail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.