Change of the Tide?

[stoney]

1 hour ago, soupkids said:

Have you ridden up north.

Even in sudbury we had ample snow to ride off trail if you knew where to go.

Yep, and each time I see the snow that is there, it is well tracked, I am sure there are the good spots though, if you are in the know.

Even the canyon, unless you arrive at the correct time, you need to go in a lot further than most.....we only actually ventured further in once, it got better and better.

My visits to these areas are always on saddle bag trips, so venturing too far off is not high on the list as we a have a destination in mind and ideally want to get there without issues if possible.

 

I have no doubt this type of riding is possible in On, just not so sure with the limited resources and the whole On insurance thing, it is something the OFSC can cater too. 

Besides, it is already there for those that truly want too, the biggest thing to it though is the whole trespass issue....which could be an argument to make it more organized to educate those and hopefully limit that.

 

[FreezerBurnt]

As an off trail rider now, I would never want the OFSC to get involved, they have enough on their plate with groomed trails

 

As some have said you have to know where to go, respect peoples property

 

Our riding group(roughly 10 of us) has a no can policy, you ride with us, you must have stock exhaust, no point pissing people off.

 

Also I am involved with our club, help early season brushing, summer trail clean up, I am one of the Facebook admin reps for our club, got a friend involved 3 years ago and now he is our signage guy.

 

 

btw shameless plug of our Snowmobile Club

https://www.facebook.com/brokenheadtrailblazers/

 

If you want to check out our FB page

 

Club members have won the family of the year award and groomer of the year award for Manitoba this past season

 

 

[FreezerBurnt]

6 hours ago, soupkids said:

Have you ridden up north.

Even in sudbury we had ample snow to ride off trail if you knew where to go.

exactly tons of off trail riding around Sudbury

[02Sled]

5 hours ago, FreezerBurnt said:

exactly tons of off trail riding around Sudbury

If only they would travel there to ride off trail rather than ignoring the signs in other areas and trespassing where they don't belong. I came across two a couple of years ago that had pushed down our snow fence to ride an open field in a provincial park. Gee I wonder what the snow fence along side the trail meant to them along with the signs to stay on trail

[AdamGamble]

16 hours ago, stoney said:

Ya, I was checking that out too, really something that I want to do someday.....looks awesome, and I am sure one hell of a work out!

Ya man I'll be there in January f'n pumped 

[slomo]

Given that other than a few self-serving and self-pitying articles in their magazine, snowtrax has never presented any statistical data in any form (other than oblique references to a facebook page) that there is a need or a sound business model for what they are proposing. Let snowtrax (and their advertisers) assume any costs and liabilities for what they are proposing and leave the OFSC to their fundamental role - that of building and maintaining the trail system.

 

Given the core business of supertrax, which has also been given a contract for marketing the OFSC (deserved through qualifications or not) there appears to be a big conflict of interest taking place here.

[johnsazzr]

On 11/2/2017 at 4:49 PM, matt17 said:

This comes up almost every year and posts like this continue to frustrate me.  It is important to keep in mind that the O in OFSC stands for Ontario which is a  big place.  Things are very different in different parts of the province.  To write off and disparage an entire group of riders doesn't seem like a great idea.  Are there idiots who ride where they should not and ride disrespectfully sure but to say that freeriders=bad,  trail riders = good is false.  There are lots of idiots who ride too fast, or otherwise disrespectfully.  In the south-central Ontario area is free riding possible, probably not but as you get further north (Wawa area, Abitibi Canyon) there are lots of legal options.  Education on this is probably key.  

 

Myself I own a Summit, am 32 and wear a snow cross style helmet.  Probably fit the basic description of "free rider" based on your post am a "freeloader".  

 

Using last year as an example I bought my permit and put about 1500km on the machine total, riding on trail and off trail both for play and fishing.  If I broke it down by kilometre I probably spent more time on actual trails in a groomer than I did enjoying my machine.  This included about 40 hours split between Dec 23, 24 and 25 breaking trail on our section of the A Trail north of town so that it could be opened for touring riders around New Years.  Still think I am a Freeloader?  

 

Personally I think I am the type of person the Lesters are talking about.  I enjoy snowmobiling, there are lots of branches under that definition.  Trail riding is one branch this and while I enjoy it there are other forms I like more.  I think trails and trail building/maintenance are important and I enjoy participating in that almost as much as trail riding.  If I had my choice though I prefer riding off trail.  I guess based on this some people think I should either not ride or move to BC.  Well moving is out so I guess I should just say F*** it and quit riding in Ontario, I am sure my wife will appreciate me having several hundred hours where I am not out in the groomer, signing trails, working on the groomers.  And if that means that the A trail linking Dubriuville to Hearst cannot open on time or is in rough shape so be it.  

No worries, Matt..

 

The problems mainly exist in the southern and eastern Ontario.....Once you get north of Muskoka/Haliburton  and into Canadian Shield there is more crown land and way less population so this discussion is not really an issue....In the Southern areas you are for the most part either on an OFSC trail, road, or private property...

 

I grew up in New Liskeard and sometimes wish I lived there now in the winter months...so much more riding "freedom"

[johnsazzr]

On 11/2/2017 at 6:46 PM, sledjunk said:

This is almost verbatim the speech that the Lester 'boys' (Mark's sons) gave as MC's at the AGM.  They were quick to point out that they were absolutely not endorsing trespassing.

 

I do not disagree that we need the younger blood in the clubs, and that many of them will use the trails to get to their places to ride.  However, as many have said, the problem is the trespassing that is occurring and closing trails.

 

While the O in OFSC is certainly for Ontario, the OFSC is a Federation of Snowmobile Clubs.  Those clubs are tasked with building and grooming the 30+ thousand kilometers of trails in Ontario.  A large part of the cost of those trails is liability insurance for the litigious few who injure themselves and then sue the organizations and volunteers for their own misadventures.

 

Now, while the volunteers and clubs are stretched to the limit, the suggestion is to build trails to areas where riders can go off trail and possibly injure or kill themselves because of the unknowns under the snow or a miscalculation on the part of the rider.  However, once this happens, the rider or his family will then look to the OFSC through the courts to be made whole because we did not protect the rider from himself.

 

If a rider finds a great meadow or field, and is sure that it is either crown land or a permitted area, then have at it.  But, if you get into trouble, don't come looking to the OFSC  to make you whole.  The OFSC is a trail riding / building organization.  If you want a freeriding organization, form one.  And go through all the growing pains and expenses that entails.

 

 

 

 

and an Amen to that

 

I posted something similar to this on FB when the article was posted on NOV 1....the Lesters deleted it...LOL

[dirtybeacher]

Not a bad idea, I think I'll give it a go.  

Could be a good direction for the future of Ontario bikers. 

 

[gobills]

20 minutes ago, dirtybeacher said:

Not a bad idea, I think I'll give it a go.  

Could be a good direction for the future of Ontario bikers. 

 

Ya could be.  Lets hope they stay off the D trail which basically runs right through the legion parking lot to get to where ever they plan on going around there.  Would love to be around that area on that day to see.

 

Personally i don't care for Ontario bikers I'm more concerned about Ontario Sledders as this is snowmobile built trail system.

[AdamGamble]

1 hour ago, dirtybeacher said:

Not a bad idea, I think I'll give it a go.  

Could be a good direction for the future of Ontario bikers. 

 

Very interesting, see what the big corporations can do lol (anything they want) 

[slomo]

"Muskoka just isint for boating activities and rich cottages." Nope - closed trails too!

 

Thanks for the warning dirtybeacher! Will be well away from that area. But do enjoy yourself.

 

If these people organize as poorly as they spell, they'll be telling stories about this event for years.

Not sure about this, but is that the OFSC free loader weekend? Just anticipating an added element to all the fun.

 

I was pretty impressed with the event in Wawa, but Muskoka???

 

[matt17]

I have participated it the Wawa ride the past 3 years and am planning on participating again this year.  The group seems well organized and has a long history of successful on/of-road enduro motorcycle events.  But as has been made clear earlier I am unsure of the availability of non ofsc trails in that area.  

[02Sled]

46 minutes ago, matt17 said:

I have participated it the Wawa ride the past 3 years and am planning on participating again this year.  The group seems well organized and has a long history of successful on/of-road enduro motorcycle events.  But as has been made clear earlier I am unsure of the availability of non ofsc trails in that area.  

Exactly. What trails do they plan on riding? If it's an OFC trail they should all be charged. The OPP should be sitting waiting ticket books in hand. If it's not on our trails, then have a great time and enjoy.

[Baylaker]

On 2017-11-05 at 3:41 PM, stoney said:

Ya, I was checking that out too, really something that I want to do someday.....looks awesome, and I am sure one hell of a work out!

My buddy has been out there and says it's awesome! Would be the ride of a lifetime...and just think, those guys get to ride that powder all season long.

[Panther340]

Depending on where this "secret" off trail powder location is near Wawa..........when you use the crownlands map link I see a lot of private land around Wawa . I see complete townships shown as private . So that might be why the powder location is secret , because the private land owner might not be aware they have a liability risk occurring on their land.

 

I do know the OFSC had to make special arrangements with these private townships north of the Sault to allow for the on trail riding to occur. I assume the same would or should have to occur with these off trail events or destinations to be legal.

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, Panther340 said:

Depending on where this "secret" off trail powder location is near Wawa..........when you use the crownlands map link I see a lot of private land around Wawa . I see complete townships shown as private . So that might be why the powder location is secret , because the private land owner might not be aware they have a liability risk occurring on their land.

 

I do know the OFSC had to make special arrangements with these private townships north of the Sault to allow for the on trail riding to occur. I assume the same would or should have to occur with these off trail events or destinations to be legal.

I believe your assumptions are correct. Down here in the very southern portion of Muskoka we have trails that run on township property and we get permission from the township to use their property for the trail.

 

C trail just north of Elmvale runs along township property parallel to 27 hwy and was almost lost a couple of years ago. Huge thanks to the club for all they did to persuade the township not to close that trail.

[04nightfire]

3 hours ago, 02Sled said:

Exactly. What trails do they plan on riding? If it's an OFC trail they should all be charged. The OPP should be sitting waiting ticket books in hand. If it's not on our trails, then have a great time and enjoy.

The top secret boondocking guys require you to have a trail pass to go on there tours.

[02Sled]

10 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

The top secret boondocking guys require you to have a trail pass to go on there tours.

The thing is these are bikes and are not legal on the OFSC trail under the MSVA. It perhaps encourages them to ride OFSC trails thinking if they did it once as part of an organized ride that it must be okay all the time. Reality is that bikes and ATV's are not legal on almost all of the OFSC trails with the exception of a few that are designated as multi-use. If the MSVA changes and they are deemed legal on the trails then if they have a valid permit, have fun. Until that time they don't belong on the OFSC trail. If they are not on the OFSC trails and having a great time... big thumbs up.

[AC+YA]

59 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

The top secret boondocking guys require you to have a trail pass to go on there tours.

This is helping to keep OFSC Trails going around Wawa.  I have ridden through on the big weekend and it is great to see all the permitted sleds running around.  The locals going to fish lakes run more unpermitted distance on OFSC trails every season than this group.  I know about laws which allow the use under certain conditions and feel they are stretched and totally ignored by some.

 

There needs to be enforcement which actually does take place on fishing derby weeks and the boondocking weekends, but seems to be non-existent the rest of the season around Wawa.

 

Get a sticker and don't launch from the groomed trail.  That is all I would like to see.  I do get upset about the way some areas of trail get destroyed as some don't respect the trail.  If your sled is able to actually get off the trail and ride, you should show your skill by leaving the trail intact. 

 

Please respect the trails and pay your share.

[04nightfire]

1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

The thing is these are bikes and are not legal on the OFSC trail under the MSVA. It perhaps encourages them to ride OFSC trails thinking if they did it once as part of an organized ride that it must be okay all the time. Reality is that bikes and ATV's are not legal on almost all of the OFSC trails with the exception of a few that are designated as multi-use. If the MSVA changes and they are deemed legal on the trails then if they have a valid permit, have fun. Until that time they don't belong on the OFSC trail. If they are not on the OFSC trails and having a great time... big thumbs up.

I some how totally missed the bike part.  Yes, they are definitely trespassing.  I was just talking about up by wawa where they run the top secret spot for sleds

[02Sled]

4 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

I some how totally missed the bike part.  Yes, they are definitely trespassing.  I was just talking about up by wawa where they run the top secret spot for sleds

What they are doing in Wawa sounds great. A permitted sled runs an OFSC trail to an area where it is legal to go off trail and then they go play.

[revrnd]

15 hours ago, gobills said:

Ya could be.  Lets hope they stay off the D trail which basically runs right through the legion parking lot to get to where ever they plan on going around there.  Would love to be around that area on that day to see.

 

Personally i don't care for Ontario bikers I'm more concerned about Ontario Sledders as this is snowmobile built trail system.

 

7 hours ago, slomo said:

"Muskoka just isint for boating activities and rich cottages." Nope - closed trails too!

 

Thanks for the warning dirtybeacher! Will be well away from that area. But do enjoy yourself.

 

If these people organize as poorly as they spell, they'll be telling stories about this event for years.

Not sure about this, but is that the OFSC free loader weekend? Just anticipating an added element to all the fun.

 

I was pretty impressed with the event in Wawa, but Muskoka???

 

 

This reminds me of an event in the early 70s that ticked off my mother. The Peterborough chapter of the Civitan Club, held a 'SnoDo 100' charity ride on the local trails in Apsley. This was before there was an OFSC presence in the area & grooming was limited (I think the local motel owner chipped in gas money). Sledders of the day pretty much knew what to expect what our was riding conditions were like. After the ride, the condition of the trails along the route was even worse than to be expected.

 

Well mother (who grew up in Apsley and has been riding since the winter of '70) wrote a letter to the Peterborough Examiner asking if the Civitan Club was aware of the mess that had resulted because of their ride. A few days later the chapter president replied & more or less said, "What can you expect, someone from the city buys an acre lot and figures they own the place." I guess since her surname wasn't Anglo-Saxon like the names in the area, she was an outsider. Everyone got a chuckle over that.

I'm pretty sure that was the only winter the event was held.

[dirtybeacher]

On 2017-11-09 at 7:14 AM, 02Sled said:

Exactly. What trails do they plan on riding? If it's an OFC trail they should all be charged. The OPP should be sitting waiting ticket books in hand. If it's not on our trails, then have a great time and enjoy.

Quoted from their page -

 

"The Cabin Fever ride will primarily be off Trail boondocking. There will be some trails that are non ofsc regulated that will be using to Transit from Boondock area to Boondock area."

 

And again a statement that ofsc trails will not be used.  

 

 

[AdamGamble]

1 hour ago, dirtybeacher said:

Quoted from their page -

 

"The Cabin Fever ride will primarily be off Trail boondocking. There will be some trails that are non ofsc regulated that will be using to Transit from Boondock area to Boondock area."

 

And again a statement that ofsc trails will not be used.  

 

 

Informative