Viperules700 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, 02Sled said: Going waaay back. A little over 40 years ago I was driving one of these electric reach forks at my part time job. The building maintenance guys had an electric truck similar to the one in Revrnd's picture. If I recall correctly there were two guys whose job it was to keep the spare batteries charged and swap them out on the reach fork when the drivers brought them back with a low battery. We had to use a self propelled cart that locked on to battery magnetically and pulled it out. It was usually easier to steal another forklift that was already charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I see no reason for an Electric powered truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 38 minutes ago, Viperules700 said: We had to use a self propelled cart that locked on to battery magnetically and pulled it out. It was usually easier to steal another forklift that was already charged. For us it was rare that there was one sitting around that wasn't being used. If I recall there were about 80 of them running around the warehouse. When they started to beep for low battery you were to go to the battery shop where they had about the same number of batteries on chargers. They had what was essentially a manual pallet truck equipped with rollers and a winch. The batteries on charge were all sitting on rollers as well. You would park lined up with a fully charged battery. The pallet truck would be on the opposite side and they would winch out the dead battery and roll the charged one in. When you left they would roll the dead one onto the roller rack to be recharged. We also had a bunch of these but older models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 5 hours ago, UsedtoSkidoo said: I see no reason for an Electric powered truck I agree,you will pay at the pump or will pay the hydro company. Pick the lesser of two evils...lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 The real killer of the electric truck/car is the time to recharge "fill up". I can fill up the truck and be on the road again in just a few minutes. Your EV can be plugged right into a standard household or workplace outlet to charge, also known as Level 1 (110V, 15amps) charging. It can take up to 8-20 hours to fully charge an EV at Level 1. Level 2 charging stations use a 240 volt system (similar to a clothes dryer plug) and can fully charge a vehicle from 0 per cent charge in about four to six hours. Imagine going on a cross country tour or any trip of any duration. One day the solution will be there but not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, snowchopper said: I agree,you will pay at the pump or will pay the hydro company. Pick the lesser of two evils...lol.... No no its better for the environment..............oh good who tells us that..................The government................................run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, 02Sled said: The real killer of the electric truck/car is the time to recharge "fill up". I can fill up the truck and be on the road again in just a few minutes. Your EV can be plugged right into a standard household or workplace outlet to charge, also known as Level 1 (110V, 15amps) charging. It can take up to 8-20 hours to fully charge an EV at Level 1. Level 2 charging stations use a 240 volt system (similar to a clothes dryer plug) and can fully charge a vehicle from 0 per cent charge in about four to six hours. Imagine going on a cross country tour or any trip of any duration. One day the solution will be there but not yet. If a surge or something comes during the night and trips main breaker, you aren't going very far in the morning. Our an extended power outage could strand you too. At least I can keep a few cans of gas in the garage for an emergency use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Well, there are already several countries In Europe who have an agreement that they will not sell a gas or diesel car after December 31 2024. Yes there are lots of jobs coming available who don't exist now. Here in Ottawa, Ford is building a 5 billion plant for the self driving electric car what must be available in 2021. Uber has already signed a contract with Ford to buy in 2021 thousands of self driving cars. This moment Uber is loosing money because they are paying the driver. Soon they don't need drivers anymore. Also Apple is setting up a self driving car plant in Ottawa. Why Ottawa, because we have here lots if companies developing software for the self driving cars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Greggie said: Well, there are already several countries In Europe who have an agreement that they will not sell a gas or diesel car after December 31 2024. Yes there are lots of jobs coming available who don't exist now. Here in Ottawa, Ford is building a 5 billion plant for the self driving electric car what must be available in 2021. Uber has already signed a contract with Ford to buy in 2021 thousands of self driving cars. This moment Uber is loosing money because they are paying the driver. Soon they don't need drivers anymore. Also Apple is setting up a self driving car plant in Ottawa. Why Ottawa, because we have here lots if companies developing software for the self driving cars... What you are saying is robots are going to build these new self driving cars and then they will be allowed on the road, with no driver. Hummmm don't think uber will find an insurance company willing to take the risk though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If you look at the stats, the self driving cars have way less accidents then cars driven by people... Tesla is working with insurance companies to lower the insurance premiums with 50%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Greggie said: If you look at the stats, the self driving cars have way less accidents then cars driven by people... Tesla is working with insurance companies to lower the insurance premiums with 50%... Caa/aaa gave tesla a horible rating and insurance co realize repairs have been much higher than regular vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 We were supposed to be off fossil fuel light vehicles by 2010 but the environics engineers didn't advance the technology fast enough. They will still have hurdles to overcome in years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 You guys are funny... way to may foolish comments to quote them all. First, your right charge time isn't as fast as filling your tank. But you plug it in every night. Ya if your traveling that can be a problem. But again, the truck is a prototype, and let's look at Tesla. 4 years ago they had a 65kw battery with about 230km range. Now in the same package is a 100kw battery with 500km+ range. Tesla does have their supercharger that will give you 350kms in about 25mins. 25mins to stop on a road trip is nothing. Walk in to an On route on the 401 and you'll be 20 mins waiting to get a coffee. Tesla is working in a new battery that will be around 125kw so about 600km that is basically a capacitor that can be charged in about 5 min. As for running out of chrage and being sruck. How often do you run out if gas in your car? In almost 30 years of driving I've never run out if gas before. Why is that? Because I know how to read that gauge on the dash and plan for it. Actually CAA/AAA gave Tesla the high possible rating for any vehicle currently on the market. There is some rumbling from AAA about trying to jack rates. However well everyone else gives EV discounts, AAA is looking stupid. As for hyrdo cost, power per km cost to chrage your EV is about 30% of what it is for a gas one. Ya hyrdo rates are always going up. But so is gas, hyrdo isn't going to triple in price before gas does. You guys have get to look at the big picture.. Gas powered cars have been around over a hundred years. So ya lots if knowledge and infrastructure to support it. EVs are just now starting to really hit the market. Give them time, they will take over. Here is an easier way to think about it... how many if you said the 4 stroke will never takeoff and take over from the 2 strokes.. Basically 4 strokes are all we have. EVs are the same as 4 stroke selds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 S&P has again reiterated their junk bond rating on Tesla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Any idea of the life expectancy and/or the replacement cost of the batteries? It's not like you'll be going to Crappy Tire or the local battery shop for replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 30 minutes ago, revrnd said: Any idea of the life expectancy and/or the replacement cost of the batteries? It's not like you'll be going to Crappy Tire or the local battery shop for replacements. New batteries cant just be replaced. They will require small or major changes to the car. They need guinny pigs now to work this all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, ArcticCrusher said: New batteries cant just be replaced. They will require small or major changes to the car. They need guinny pigs now to work this all out. Probably nothing like changing the batteries in a lift truck or Cushman. W/ the Cushman, it was plugged in between shifts. The lift trucks all had an extra battery that was swapped in the 'recharge room' each shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, revrnd said: Probably nothing like changing the batteries in a lift truck or Cushman. W/ the Cushman, it was plugged in between shifts. The lift trucks all had an extra battery that was swapped in the 'recharge room' each shift. By the time you.change it newer tech batteries will need mods in the var for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfish Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 12 hours ago, dweese said: You guys are funny... way to may foolish comments to quote them all. First, your right charge time isn't as fast as filling your tank. But you plug it in every night. Ya if your traveling that can be a problem. But again, the truck is a prototype, and let's look at Tesla. 4 years ago they had a 65kw battery with about 230km range. Now in the same package is a 100kw battery with 500km+ range. Tesla does have their supercharger that will give you 350kms in about 25mins. 25mins to stop on a road trip is nothing. Walk in to an On route on the 401 and you'll be 20 mins waiting to get a coffee. Tesla is working in a new battery that will be around 125kw so about 600km that is basically a capacitor that can be charged in about 5 min. As for running out of chrage and being sruck. How often do you run out if gas in your car? In almost 30 years of driving I've never run out if gas before. Why is that? Because I know how to read that gauge on the dash and plan for it. Actually CAA/AAA gave Tesla the high possible rating for any vehicle currently on the market. There is some rumbling from AAA about trying to jack rates. However well everyone else gives EV discounts, AAA is looking stupid. As for hyrdo cost, power per km cost to chrage your EV is about 30% of what it is for a gas one. Ya hyrdo rates are always going up. But so is gas, hyrdo isn't going to triple in price before gas does. You guys have get to look at the big picture.. Gas powered cars have been around over a hundred years. So ya lots if knowledge and infrastructure to support it. EVs are just now starting to really hit the market. Give them time, they will take over. Here is an easier way to think about it... how many if you said the 4 stroke will never takeoff and take over from the 2 strokes.. Basically 4 strokes are all we have. EVs are the same as 4 stroke selds... I hear what your saying Dave, but it's going to take quite a few years for the public's mindset to adapt to accept electric vehicles. They may be well and good in an urban setting (taxi/uber, delivery van, etc) and in Europe. However in the rest of N America and other large undeveloped areas, there needs to be much more development of the battery systems, to increase their efficiency and to reduce the pollution cause by the manufacture of batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 12 hours ago, dweese said: You guys are funny... way to may foolish comments to quote them all. First, your right charge time isn't as fast as filling your tank. But you plug it in every night. Ya if your traveling that can be a problem. But again, the truck is a prototype, and let's look at Tesla. 4 years ago they had a 65kw battery with about 230km range. Now in the same package is a 100kw battery with 500km+ range. Tesla does have their supercharger that will give you 350kms in about 25mins. 25mins to stop on a road trip is nothing. Walk in to an On route on the 401 and you'll be 20 mins waiting to get a coffee. Tesla is working in a new battery that will be around 125kw so about 600km that is basically a capacitor that can be charged in about 5 min. As for running out of chrage and being sruck. How often do you run out if gas in your car? In almost 30 years of driving I've never run out if gas before. Why is that? Because I know how to read that gauge on the dash and plan for it. Actually CAA/AAA gave Tesla the high possible rating for any vehicle currently on the market. There is some rumbling from AAA about trying to jack rates. However well everyone else gives EV discounts, AAA is looking stupid. As for hyrdo cost, power per km cost to chrage your EV is about 30% of what it is for a gas one. Ya hyrdo rates are always going up. But so is gas, hyrdo isn't going to triple in price before gas does. You guys have get to look at the big picture.. Gas powered cars have been around over a hundred years. So ya lots if knowledge and infrastructure to support it. EVs are just now starting to really hit the market. Give them time, they will take over. Here is an easier way to think about it... how many if you said the 4 stroke will never takeoff and take over from the 2 strokes.. Basically 4 strokes are all we have. EVs are the same as 4 stroke selds... It will get better but it's not there yet. You mention plugging in overnight. Currently the charge time varies it seems between 8 and 20 hours. That is assuming that when you get home at dinner time you can plug in and you don't go back out. From what I have read on batteries partial charges will shorten the life of the battery overall. It seems that the battery life span is best when they go from full charge to about 10% of charge and then recharged back to full. Recharging when only at 50% is detrimental to the overall life. So now you get home plug in while you have dinner. Then you unplug and take one kid to soccer. Then you come home and plug in for a short time then you go out yourself to play hockey in one of those late night ice time games. Perhaps you're single and you get home, don't bother to have dinner, get changed and go out for the night. You get home at 11:00 and plug in. You leave for work at 7:00 the next morning. Not necessarily enough for a full charge. The supercharger you mention is if I am not mistaken 420V power. The chargers the province has installed are apparently not providing that level of recharge. You mention 25 minutes. That's IF you don't have to wait for a charger to become available. Reality... you have to sit in your car for perhaps that 25 minutes waiting for a charger to become available. That is if the person on the charger doesn't stay longer to get a full charge. If you leave and go inside for some lunch you may well miss the next available charger. THEN you start the 25 minute charge. Running out of gas is a lot harder to do than running out of charge. You say you can read the gauge. There are a whole lot more gas stations than there are charging stations. They are a lot easier to find than charging stations which are few and far between. Their numbers will increase but it will take time. The amount of time it takes to recharge will as the number of vehicles increases also dictate that the amount of property required will be larger than that of a gas station as you have multiple cars parked for an extended time. You'll also need somewhere for them to go inside while the recharge is happening rather than sit in their car trying to stay warm or cool running the heater or air conditioner which would lengthen the duration of the charge time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 eat it all up.......................its not about electric power its about controlling dollars. Enjoy . Btw I love my two stroke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 As for the self driving cars............more realistic articles have been written that show that 2050 might be more realistic timeframe for when in place, and that is because the infrastructure required to adapt our roads and highways (paid for by you and me the taxpayer).........will take that long and there will still be many places in rural areas that will not have the infrastructure and will require "drivers" . The UBer type companies and the Google company and yes the insurance companies all want to make money on it so they will tell us its "soon" .......but like anything we will be the ones paying for it, even as we do right now with millions in tax money dumped into self driving research, that I would prefer was spent on health care to save lives now ! So when its the year 2025 and 25 below and a blizzard and I need to get to a Doctor appointment in the city , I am quite confident that my gas powered 4 x4 GMC truck will start and defog the windows and my driving will get me thru the snow drifts to the highway , where the Electric plows are delayed getting the plows and sand on the road . I will still get to the appointment. Now the city folks that are forced into living 35 floors up in a 800 sq ft apartment , with their Nissan leafs plugged in in the apartment garage down stairs will also get to their appointments, but I guess that depends on whether you want a life 35 floors up sharing that elevator everyday, taking your dog out for duties on the apartment building lawn 4 times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 hours ago, 02Sled said: It will get better but it's not there yet. You mention plugging in overnight. Currently the charge time varies it seems between 8 and 20 hours. That is assuming that when you get home at dinner time you can plug in and you don't go back out. From what I have read on batteries partial charges will shorten the life of the battery overall. It seems that the battery life span is best when they go from full charge to about 10% of charge and then recharged back to full. Recharging when only at 50% is detrimental to the overall life. So now you get home plug in while you have dinner. Then you unplug and take one kid to soccer. Then you come home and plug in for a short time then you go out yourself to play hockey in one of those late night ice time games. Perhaps you're single and you get home, don't bother to have dinner, get changed and go out for the night. You get home at 11:00 and plug in. You leave for work at 7:00 the next morning. Not necessarily enough for a full charge. The supercharger you mention is if I am not mistaken 420V power. The chargers the province has installed are apparently not providing that level of recharge. You mention 25 minutes. That's IF you don't have to wait for a charger to become available. Reality... you have to sit in your car for perhaps that 25 minutes waiting for a charger to become available. That is if the person on the charger doesn't stay longer to get a full charge. If you leave and go inside for some lunch you may well miss the next available charger. THEN you start the 25 minute charge. Running out of gas is a lot harder to do than running out of charge. You say you can read the gauge. There are a whole lot more gas stations than there are charging stations. They are a lot easier to find than charging stations which are few and far between. Their numbers will increase but it will take time. The amount of time it takes to recharge will as the number of vehicles increases also dictate that the amount of property required will be larger than that of a gas station as you have multiple cars parked for an extended time. You'll also need somewhere for them to go inside while the recharge is happening rather than sit in their car trying to stay warm or cool running the heater or air conditioner which would lengthen the duration of the charge time. Could very well be an hour waiting before getting a charge. I can just imagine the frustration forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Would waiting at the Port Severn electric station be 'that bad"? You can complete work on your computer - isolated, quiet work up in the rotunda. You can answer or make calls. If retired or on a day off, walk down to the river. Bring a hammer, work on 02Sled's new home Interesting book that's on my summer reading list: The book's premise is "we can overcome the multiple stresses of an age of accelerations - if we slow down and use the time to reimagine work, politics, and community" From an earlier book review, I recall that it started with Friedman waiting for someone in a restaurant. He reflected on the time this accorded him - he was waiting, but at the same time, didn't have to be anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I would like to re imagine Wynne and Trudeau and their green Enviro Nazi ways , various articles in more right wing newspapers show that even if "Paris Accord" has been pursued and met , the electrification of the planets vehicles would of increased from 1 % to maybe 2 or 3% . Fossil fuels are at reasonable prices now and let the market decide whether it is worth while for us to change over slowly .............but then most people have drank the koolaid that blames global warming on C02 , so we all are going to pay for those electric subsidies . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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