Mandatory Floater Suits Coming ???

[Nith Valley Sledder]

This could cost a little of new snowmobile suits being sold.

 

CBC News: Daughter 'would be alive today' if she was wearing flotation device on snowmobile, mother says. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwqevtxDk

[Cuyuna]

When I first read this I thought - not such a bad thing. My second thought was of the over-regulated nanny state we all have to endure. There is already a mandatory helmet law, so what's the difference ? There is a difference. Helmets protect us from unexpected events that most often can not be predicted. Running lakes, for the most part, as far as ice conditions go, can be predicted. Follow the weather patterns, get info on ice thickness, know your routes, be aware of over-driving headlights etc. 

 

I am a firm believer and user of ice picks and floater suits, but it is my choice. I am afraid that if these things were mandated by law, where do you draw the line ? Should we mandate speed limiters, horsepower limits and forbid night driving. as well ? Hell, let's put the breathalizer ignition locks on the sleds as well, because everyone knows that all sledders are boozers on the trail. The keys to most situations are information, education, intelligence, common sense and personal accountability. It grieves me every time there is a needless drowning that could have been easily prevented, but enough with the nanny state thinking. I am not a callous or uncaring man, but... be careful what you wish for.

[gobills]

I totally sympathize with the family this is a horrific accident.  I hope the mother can make some headway on this.  It would save some lives that's for sure.  

 

On the flips side good luck with enforcement,  you hardly see enforcement now.

[jrhz06]

Limiting sled speeds to 10 mph and banning lake running would save lives too. Where would you like to draw the line for people not taking responsibility for their actions? I feel bad for the family, it's a terrible loss, but it was their decision to not wear a floater suit. 

 

[gobills]

10 minutes ago, jrhz06 said:

Limiting sled speeds to 10 mph and banning lake running would save lives too. Where would you like to draw the line for people not taking responsibility for their actions? I feel bad for the family, it's a terrible loss, but it was their decision to not wear a floater suit. 

 

She was 16 pretty sure that's what her parents bought her.

[jrhz06]

So because the parents chose not to buy their daughter a floater suit they want to make it mandatory for all people to buy them. I don't want to seem callus but someone made a consous decision as to what suit to buy. If the mother felt so strongly about the use of a floater suit she should have bought one for her daughter.

[Techdenis007]

22 minutes ago, jrhz06 said:

So because the parents chose not to buy their daughter a floater suit they want to make it mandatory for all people to buy them. I don't want to seem callus but someone made a consous decision as to what suit to buy. If the mother felt so strongly about the use of a floater suit she should have bought one for her daughter.

 

Nuff said .... 

[gobills]

42 minutes ago, jrhz06 said:

So because the parents chose not to buy their daughter a floater suit they want to make it mandatory for all people to buy them. I don't want to seem callus but someone made a consous decision as to what suit to buy. If the mother felt so strongly about the use of a floater suit she should have bought one for her daughter.

Well you must be always right, always do the right thing, always have the right thing to say!

Sometimes things happen and because of these events people then become more educated and want to make things safer and as well educate people.

 

 

[tireless]

I wear a tech vest because I CHOOSE to, I have seen small mishaps resulting in broken ribs.....But I don't think it should 

be mandatory. 

[jrhz06]

1 hour ago, gobills said:

Well you must be always right, always do the right thing, always have the right thing to say!

Sometimes things happen and because of these events people then become more educated and want to make things safer and as well educate people.

 

 

Educating people is a great thing. Once people are educated they are in a position to make an "educated decision". Forcing ones opinion upon others is not educating and empowering them, its just the opposite. By mandating something you are basically telling people that they are not capable of making a decision for themselves.

[dweese]

My wife showed me this today. 

 

I feel sorry for these parents, I can't imagine what it's like to loose a child at that age. 

 

I also point a finger at the parents, you allowed your kid on ice in a year with very questionable weather and ice conditions. They are local to the area and should havent known the ice wasn't safe. Have a buddy at work who lives on Scogog. Always fools out there when the ice isn't safe.

[Bigdaddy63250]

Dweese......

Do you have a teenager?  Have you ever had a teenager?  You cannot believe that parents could possibly allow them to ride on unsafe ice.  We as parents always want our children to do the right thing.  But I can say with confidence that teenagers will be teenagers and test the limits of such.  Their curiosity and temptation to have fun entices kids to explore.  

I'm sorry but to point a finger at the parents here is unfair.   That's just my opinion.  

[ZR SLEDHEAD]

A life cut so very short is tragic, can't imagine what her parents have gone through.  On the flip side, we can not save every single person that makes a poor decision with over regulation of any activity. At some point peeps need to take more responsibility for their own well being.

[skidooboy]

with what the parents are trying to do here, you can see the guilt they have in the loss of their child's life, and are trying to come to grips with that. albeit a noble cause, you cannot mandate something like this, when many people never see water. there are too many styles of riding, large swings in temperatures, and specific clothing requirements that floatation devices would hamper certain activities. FXR for example already has this built into their line of trail riding apparel.  the options are already there, there are no needs to mandate something like this at all. it was an accident, that is all. you cant prevent EVERY ACCIDENT.  and what if'ing the situation only makes it worse.

 

what if she was wearing a floatation aided suit, would she have survived? possibly. what would have happened if she survived, made it out of the water and perished from hyperthermia? are we now having a discussion on mandating heated outerwear for all sledders? what happens when the electronically heated suit malfunctions due to getting wet, and stops a pacemaker in someone who needs it?  what if'ing is a large, and deep rabbit hole to go down. in the end, it was a terrible accident, and better education on these situations for all, may have helped more than all the mandated equipment discussions we could have. Ski

[02Sled]

8 hours ago, Bigdaddy63250 said:

Dweese......

Do you have a teenager?  Have you ever had a teenager?  You cannot believe that parents could possibly allow them to ride on unsafe ice.  We as parents always want our children to do the right thing.  But I can say with confidence that teenagers will be teenagers and test the limits of such.  Their curiosity and temptation to have fun entices kids to explore.  

I'm sorry but to point a finger at the parents here is unfair.   That's just my opinion.  

 

What you say makes sense however I would ask the question. Mom and dad are more than likely the ones that bought the snowmobile suit. I would suggest it was in hindsight a bad decision on their part to not have bought a floater suit. I doubt the daughter would have had the resources to say I'm not going to wear that and gone out and bought a regular suit on her own.

 

31 minutes ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said:

A life cut so very short is tragic, can't imagine what her parents have gone through.  On the flip side, we can not save every single person that makes a poor decision with over regulation of any activity. At some point peeps need to take more responsibility for their own well being.

 

It seems to be a symptom of the times. The nanny state keeps on growing. Mandatory bicycle helmets, now there is talk of making it illegal for restaurants to provide free refills for soft drinks, schools that scrutinize what a kid has in their lunch bag and if they deem it unhealthy tell them to not eat it and take it back home. Every now and then we see the lifejacket question rear it's head where there is a group pushing to have it mandatory to be actually wearing a lifejacket when on a boat rather than just have one with you.

 

Myself, when we first started snowmobiling, we weren't aware there were floater suits. Once we got into the sport and became aware, we bought new floater suits. We also don't go on the ice without ice picks.

[matt17]

As others have said I think education is key.  This is something that I can't see how they could mandate.  There are so many variables to consider, should I be wearing a floater suit when I am out on a lake I know (because I drilled it the day before) has 24+ inches of ice.  Having said that I do own a FXR suit with the FAST floater tech but I don't always wear it depending on the weather and ice.

 

And staying afloat is only the first issue if you go in, I had a little surprise on my way out fishing one night this winter after one of our melts.  Was running back from a fishing spot and ended up laying in waist deep water that soaked one side of my body at 30 below.  Only had 10 km of trail to run to truck but suit was still frozen solid and I was getting quite cold.  Once you are out the clock is ticking.  

 

I think the clothing manufactures are starting to consider this an important selling feature, as someone mentioned FXR is introducing it into more of their trail suits.  Watching the snowtrax feature they did with FXR this year they company rep referred to all of  their child/youth lineup having the FAST technology for floatation.  

[02Sled]

I'll ask the question... can you really KNOW the ice on a lake is safe because you drilled one spot the day before. Some of the waters in our area have had 24" and more and still had spots with open water or just skimmed over with a very thin layer of ice. I have seen spots where you are on ice 2+ feet thick yet 20 feet away is open water due to current or an underground spring into the lake.

[Viperules700]

16 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

I'll ask the question... can you really KNOW the ice on a lake is safe because you drilled one spot the day before. Some of the waters in our area have had 24" and more and still had spots with open water or just skimmed over with a very thin layer of ice. I have seen spots where you are on ice 2+ feet thick yet 20 feet away is open water due to current or an underground spring into the lake.

No ice is 100 percent safe. You can reduce your risk, if you know the lake you are on though and  stay to stake lines only, when in an unfamiliar area.  

[02Sled]

5 minutes ago, Viperules700 said:

No ice is 100 percent safe. You can reduce your risk, if you know the lake you are on though and  stay to stake lines only, when in an unfamiliar area. 

 

Exactly... we tend to stay to the stake lines with very few exceptions. Earlier this year there were a large number of tracks that went away from the stake line leading toward a bay which always has open water as you come closer to the bottom end. I can only assume the tracks were to and from someone's cottage.

 

I've heard so many make the foolish assumption. If there are tracks it must be safe. Those tracks could have been a 400 lb sled with a 150 lb rider going 100 kph. Now put a 550 lb sled with a 220 lb rider going 60 kph on the same track and they just may not make it.

[Viperules700]

How about we all wear life jackets before attempting an ice crossing. 

[02Sled]

I remember many years ago seeing a concept sled that if I recall correctly had been put together by University of Waterloo students. Something like air bags in a car and the self inflating life jackets we have today. There was a sensor module under the cowling that when submerged in water would inflate large air bags under the sled and it would bob on top of the water like a cork.

 

It's a nice concept.

[RotaxMike]

Quote

 

I feel bad for the parents, but here we go again.  I agree with alot that has been said. The only thing I have seen on the driver of the sled is that he survived, what about his parents.  There is so many things that was wrong. There is no staked lake trail on the east side of Scugog Island. So many people say they know the lake, & how many of these people had close call or died riding at night. Do you think a 16 year old knows a lake at night. The area they went through has a hard time freezing on a cold winter. The point is they should not be riding the lake at 10:30 at night. 

[signfan]

11 hours ago, 02Sled said:

 

What you say makes sense however I would ask the question. Mom and dad are more than likely the ones that bought the snowmobile suit. I would suggest it was in hindsight a bad decision on their part to not have bought a floater suit. I doubt the daughter would have had the resources to say I'm not going to wear that and gone out and bought a regular suit on her own.

 

 

It seems to be a symptom of the times. The nanny state keeps on growing. Mandatory bicycle helmets, now there is talk of making it illegal for restaurants to provide free refills for soft drinks, schools that scrutinize what a kid has in their lunch bag and if they deem it unhealthy tell them to not eat it and take it back home. Every now and then we see the lifejacket question rear it's head where there is a group pushing to have it mandatory to be actually wearing a lifejacket when on a boat rather than just have one with you.

 

Myself, when we first started snowmobiling, we weren't aware there were floater suits. Once we got into the sport and became aware, we bought new floater suits. We also don't go on the ice without ice picks.

 

Did they buy a snowmobile suit?  Or was their daughter a non snowmobiler that was following her boyfriend (the actual snowmobiler with parents that understand and know the sport) and tagged along for a ride wearing her ski jacket?  This is an extremely sad situation that we should all be sympathetic of.  I remember in high school taking our friends with us riding across the lake.  As non snowmobilers they were completely reliant on the fact that I knew what I was doing and where I was going.  

 

I highly doubt that a mandatory floater suit law would have prevented this incident.  I am very sympathetic to the mother and see where she is coming from.  This said it's a plan that won't work.  Floater suits aren't warm enough for 30 below riding and how would you ever enforce the law?  We don't even have laws that make you wear your life jacket in boats.  They have to be there, but not on you.  Let's start with that if we want to prevent drowning.  As for her driver training plan I think the stats on boat licenses need to be looked at?  Have the courses brought the number of boat incidents down?  If there is a solid statistic that showed the boater exams worked then maybe snowmobile licenses are worth looking at.  It all needs to be looked at in context.  It was a bad winter for sled related deaths.  This said the OFSC has been very successful in bringing the number of snowmobile related fatalities that occur each winter down when looking at things over the past 20 years.  Education and enforcement have made this happen.

 

The boys that were driving made the mistake here and unfortunately the girl lost her life over their bad decision.  Very sad and not something I'd ever like to see happen again.  My sincerest condolences to the family.  I can't imagine what it would be like to loose a child.

[dweese]

21 hours ago, Bigdaddy63250 said:

Dweese......

Do you have a teenager?  Have you ever had a teenager?  You cannot believe that parents could possibly allow them to ride on unsafe ice.  We as parents always want our children to do the right thing.  But I can say with confidence that teenagers will be teenagers and test the limits of such.  Their curiosity and temptation to have fun entices kids to explore.  

I'm sorry but to point a finger at the parents here is unfair.   That's just my opinion.  

I've raised 3 if them actually.. 1 boy and 2 girls...and they are far from perfect.

 

As foolish as they can be, I would have made sure they couldn't have gotten to snowmachines at 1130pm. And would have educated them never ride on a river... The story says they where on the lake, when they where actually on the river, a river that in a good year doesn't freeze well enough to sled on. Everyone who lives in this area knows the river isn't safe to seld on. 

 

I'm pointing the finger at the parents, because clearly it seems like there was some lack of education of how and where to safety ride. 

 

[revrnd]

There was a segment w/ her on Global or CTV as well. My S-I-L who has sledded since she was a kid asked me if I saw it. I said yes. She figured I'd be bouncing off the ceiling. The mother wants more regulations. Like what, no ice crossings, no night riding?

 

How does a mandatory floater suit law work? Would a rider on the trails get a ticket for not wearing one even though they will not be riding on any ice?

 

Yes it was a horrible accident, but can legislation stop it in the future? Back in the late 90s/early00s there were 4 (maybe 5) drownings in 2 incidents in about a week on Scubog (both times on the 'east side'). I've ridden on it a few times over the years, but always asked buddies/co-workers that were on the late for updates.