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$20,000. Snowmobiles and the Canary In the Coal Mine


Cuyuna

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Here in Canada we now have top of the line sleds about to break through the 20K barrier. Throw in the HST, cover, spare belt and a few accessories and you are way past the mark. Don't get me wrong, this post is not a complaint about the price of things. Take a top of the line sled like the Thundercat / Sidewinder - a beautiful piece of machinery and you get a lot of impressive performance for the money.The price does, however, give serious pause for reflection on the Return On Investment.

 

Going to mention the "unmentionable" in snowmobile forums - Global Warming / Climate Change. In my mind, the February melt-down as experienced here in Haliburton is unprecedented. The season was late coming in and sputtered through January. Things finally got rolling in early February and the lakes came in- late, OK but not great. On Feb. 19, during the Family Day weekend - Melt-Down, with brutal intensity and speed.We were wiped out in the next scorching week and never recovered. This year has to be the worst snowmobiling year on record - unprecedented. This follows a period of steady decline for the past 10 years, maybe 20. As I write this we have the lowest level of ice cover in the Arctic and Antarctic regions. The rate of decline is accelerating. Although I have been aware of Climate Change data, deep down I was hoping it was just a cyclical problem and would turn around. After this poor winter, preceded by too many poor winters, I now feel things may be even worse than generally stated.

 

Although I have always bought top of the line sleds and am fortunate enough to be able to afford a "20K" sled, I am no longer able to pull myself to do it. There is now a new personal fiscal restraint involved and a different way of thinking about all things snowmobile. I think the sport faces doom. When you couple the climate challenges with the ills faced by the OFSC in terms of trail closures, land owner fears, etc., things have never looked as bad as they do right now, in my opinion.

 

I will remain a dedicated sledder, be one of the first to step up and buy my permits next year and volunteer for my club, but deep down, things have changed.  But I'll continue, I'll ride the trails to the dirt before I'm forced to pack it in. 20 k sleds ? They are the canary in the coal mine and no more for me. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post. Happy Trails...

 

Cuyuna

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I don't disagree as I too have had the same thoughts cross my mind the past few seasons.

When I bought my new Thundercat I figured it could possibly be the last new sled I purchase.

I am still holding on to my 2000 XCR800 as that may eventually become my primary sled at some point.

Will still buy my permit(s) and like you, volunteer with the club as well.

But, the writing may very well be on the wall...I hope I am wrong however.

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The trade in values are a real kick in the nuts right now that's for sure.  

 

As for global warming I'm a believer that we are doing damage, but look at history and cycles of weather these types of winters have happened before and will continue to happen.

 

These past 2 are unusal thought to have 2 this bad.  The early 80' s late 90's show this pattern and they got better with some bad after.   We will have good winters coming again it's all a big cycle.

 

As for the sled prices ya they are getting pretty high, but almost all sleds hit 100mph now so there a lot invested by the manufacturer into these as well for such a small market compared to other power sports(yes GMifty it's a sport).

 

I will continue to do this as long as I can it's a sense of freedom being out on the trails!! Yes it's a expensive sport but nothing beats a flat trail,warm lunch and a cold beer at the end of a long day!!

 

Cheers

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I moved to the Huntsville area one year ago. Being in snowmobile country, I got back into the sport this winter, buying a 17 Renegade Adrenaline 850. My last sled was a 1980 Blizzard 9500. I've had a lot of fun this winter, memories of my childhood flooding back, a big grin on my face when I come home to my wife from a day of riding in this area. I put 1000kms on my sled in this mixed up short winter season. Recently, I test drove a Sidewinder, with the thought of that being my next move. I even went so far as to get a written quote for a 50th anniversary LTX- LE, just over $20,000, taxes in. 

 

Cuyuna makes a lot of sense with his insightful post. That's a lot of $$$ to sit around depreciating for ten months or so every year. I love my toys, having previously owned two 72 Olds Cutlass convertibles and currently, the wife and I own two Grizzly ATV's. The cars made money and the ATV will hold their value, relatively speaking.... I get about 8 months a year use out of them as well. I buy my toys for fun, not for monetary investments. Winter sports are becoming a gamble, weather is becoming so unpredictable. As much as I'd love to own the 18 Sidewinder LTX-LE- I think it's the best looking sled to come along in years- it may just be too much of a gamble for me. I'd hate to spend $20,000 for a few hundred kilometers of fun in 2018.

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Fully agree with everything written above. I guess I can relate the most to Cayuna's post. I'm also in the fortunate position to be able to upgrade if I choose to, but given the past couple of winters I'm having more than a bit of trouble justifying the purchase of a new sled when our season is so short. I'll also buy passes as soon as they are available and also help out again as a volunteer but just can't see buying a new snow machine as cool as some of them are. Add to all this a disfunctional club, despite the best efforts of a couple of very well intentioned individuals, and maybe it's time to start helping out the local ATV club and shift my focus more in that direction.

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Trailering is becoming a new norm.  I think the other thing you have to be is flexible.  When it snows get out and ride.  Despite having an odd winter there is still rideable trails this week in Ontario.  You have to make the time for the sport.  If you can get away mid week it opens up lots of additional riding opportunities.

 

I agree $20,000 is crazy for a snowmobile.  It's not every sled though.  Just for a big Yamaha that I wouldn't want anyways.

 

As for the trails I think the clubs and districts need to re-evaluate where the trails are located.  It's silly that we are still crossing and getting groomers stuck in the same swamp that we have been fighting for 20 plus years.  Yes there are areas where the swamps are unavoidable, but in many instances  there are better options that require a higher level view of what the priorities need to be.  Hopefully with the changes coming in the districts previous lessons learned and best practices can be shared and implemented across all clubs in the district.  Planning and foresight can lead to better more reliable trails despite changing weather.  I'd look at district six as a good example of these ideas being put to work and their trails show it.

 

There's no way I'll be convinced that the sport is dying.  ATVing doesn't even come close to comparing to sledding.  We just need some new out of the box thinking.  We need to find a cheap way to make snow and should also probably look at adding tillers to the drags so a studded groomer can make an ice packed trail rideable after we get a big melt and the subsequent freeze up.  The snow base didn't disappear overnight in the Haliburton Highlands and Muskoks this February.  It just froze rock hard and became unrideable with creeks and swamps opening up.  The ski resorts are still open today.  What can our sport learn from their operations?

 

 

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Hey I agree, 20K sounds like a big problem. You could almost buy two new sleds for 20K and have twice the fun. First world problems I guess. I rode 400k over the last couple days and yes I trailered. I feel privileged and downright lucky to be in the 1% or less of Canadians who can afford the sleds and the time off work to ride. We all know people that drink and smoke 20k a year who never leave their TV chair. The weather has always been up and down and yes the science points to a trend. Remember the old saying "smoke them if you got em" ? Ride them if you got em because life is short! Stay positive brothers. 

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Went to the 'doo Sneak Peak in Ptbo the other week. A Renegade, 5 LOOOOOOOOONG tracks & 1 maybe 2 Grand Touring. Not sure about the pricing, but I'm sure the long track sleds didn't interest too many people in this area.

 

That being said there are sledders that don't put a lot of miles on each year (I seem to have fallen into) probably have a hard time justifying a new sled.

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I agree with  ,sign fan, I've been grooming for 12years and if the ground was smo

1 hour ago, signfan said:

Trailering is becoming a new norm.  I think the other thing you have to be is flexible.  When it snows get out and ride.  Despite having an odd winter there is still rideable trails this week in Ontario.  You have to make the time for the sport.  If you can get away mid week it opens up lots of additional riding opportunities.

 

I agree $20,000 is crazy for a snowmobile.  It's not every sled though.  Just for a big Yamaha that I wouldn't want anyways.

 

As for the trails I think the clubs and districts need to re-evaluate where the trails are located.  It's silly that we are still crossing and getting groomers stuck in the same swamp that we have been fighting for 20 plus years.  Yes there are areas where the swamps are unavoidable, but in many instances  there are better options that require a higher level view of what the priorities need to be.  Hopefully with the changes coming in the districts previous lessons learned and best practices can be shared and implemented across all clubs in the district.  Planning and foresight can lead to better more reliable trails despite changing weather.  I'd look at district six as a good example of these ideas being put to work and their trails show it.

 

There's no way I'll be convinced that the sport is dying.  ATVing doesn't even come close to comparing to sledding.  We just need some new out of the box thinking.  We need to find a cheap way to make snow and should also probably look at adding tillers to the drags so a studded groomer can make an ice packed trail rideable after we get a big melt and the subsequent freeze up.  The snow base didn't disappear overnight in the Haliburton Highlands and Muskoks this February.  It just froze rock hard and became unrideable with creeks and swamps opening up.  The ski resorts are still open today.  What can our sport learn from their operations?

 

 

oth under the snow and we had less swamp and water crossing it would be alot faster to open trails. And trails would be open for weeks longer.I know this isn't always possible,but look at a trail in the summer you would wonder how it could ever be groomed.

 

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There have Been lots of bad winter's before, 95 to 96 was bad, 99 to 2000 almost as bad as this winter. I remember getting rained out in northbay middle of Feb that year. Sure sleds only about 8k or so back then, permit I bet was around 140 bucks. Spin up to 2017 and permits for 187.50 can't beat that, when sleds have doubled in most cases. I agree we have to think outside the box and in colder area's, maybe we could come up with a way to harvest snow from the bush. Here in Kitchener and bigger cities they dump snow into a large melter. Not much open in D5 for last two winters. Another bad winter, I can see clubs just giving up to Mother Nature. Why stake and sign trails, get permission etc to ride 6 weeks every 3 years. We use to average 4 to 8 weeks in D5. Now most of the area is struggling to open for a week or so each winter. Let's hope the cold returns next winter. 

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They dig a hole and store snow under hay for snocross in July don't they?? Or at least they did. Could be white gold for someone with enough land and can sell the stuff when it's not falling naturally in February. 

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Let's make a point to recycle this thread this time next year to compare notes.

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I agree with you Cuyuna on your original post. I have to say that Cat is onto the fact that the cost of toys is hurting sales. Atv price points have dropped. Sleds have dropped for '18 as well. For instance, my model of sled was 15,099 new in '15. Its was nearly a g more in '16 and '17 I think. For '18 it's has dropped to 15,299 I think without looking at the Cat site again. Doo  needs to do the same, especially for the bulkhead cracking, clutch exploding sleds they're making these days. All mfg need to bring prices down to earth and not on a frozen planet that doesn't exist. 

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More or less the same as I have been thinking the last couple of years.....which is why I have been gently poking IQTurbo, Nunz and others to never mind the spring deals, keep your sled, save your money for travel to other locales. My recent trip to New Brunswick was in my mind setting up for 'Plan B' after the eventual demise of Ontario trails, or at least those in the southern part of the province. Once retired, I'll have the time and hopefully the funds to travel to where the snowmobiling is best at the time - perhaps staying for weeks or months at a time.

 

In addition to the weather, we also have the problem where the adminstrative future of Ontario trails is firmly in the grip of a money oriented circle jerk. Working under the assumption that unless snowmobiling is good for the government in power or snowmobiling will be ignored (which is why Freeloader Weekend will not see any changes despite discontent ) imaginative or innovative solutions are needed for increasing snowmobiler participation from those who normally would not consider it, and for a method in which trails are less under the threat of land use permission being withdrawn.

 

I am sure someone will pipe up with 'snomobiling provides 1 billion, no wait, 2 billion, no, no, 3 billion dollars to Ontario's economy every year' - Yes this is true, but unless you allow the government to capitalize and use this to their advantage - much as the February Freeloader Weekend contributes to the Liberal initiative Family Day holiday - we'll just go on creating the economic largesse without the further benefit of being 'thanked' and supported by a grateful government as which happens in other provinces.

 

The OFSC would have made a wiser choice to hire a marketing firm which had nothing to do with an existing OFSC relationship - a fresh set of eyes, ears, and ideas unburdened by preconceived notions,  would have suited Ontario snowmobiling much better. We just hear and read the same old stuff, focused on those who are already participating, and who really don't need to be told information they already know. You know what those sled crossings on highways and roadways are? A marketing and awareness gold mine. (BTW - I predict this will be the next hassle - townships wanting to be reimbursed for sled damage to asphalt.)

 

In terms of trail permanance, I would suggest wiping the current trail system from the map, conduct a survey of available crown and township land and redraw the trail system (where necessary) with emphasis on long term trail access commitments. As most of the land registry is now stored on computer accessed databases, this would not be as difficult as imagined. Not sure how much this would cost, or if it is indeed feasible, but a blue skying approach to being held hostage (and in some Muskoka cases we have seen where this is the case) to trail access might lead to some solutions.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Old Sledder said:

Maybe we all just need to move to Wawa

 

 

That would certainly boost the economy. It is said that over 50% of females still resident in Wawa are married to former hitchhikers. (source -  CBC's  "Still Standing" - Jonny Harris)

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My passion for snowmobiling started in 1977 when I was a toddler out with my dad and will continue for the rest of my life.

 

There was a time when everyone thought paying $10,000 for a sled was too much now its up to $20,000. Some of is will see $30,000 sleds some day............looks at SxS's. On a side note who ever would have imagined a new GMC Denali Duramax crew cab or Ford Superduty Powerstroke would be almost $90,000 + HST.

 

I remember riding Golden Triangle trails BEFORE there ever was an OFSC and those permits were $20 and grooming was all done my Skidoo Alpines and club maps were photocopied 8.5 x 11 sheets.

 

I too am fortunate to be able to afford to trade when I want too. But my love of this sport motivated me to build a career that allows me the luxury of enjoying it.

 

The weather is disappointing, trails closing is disappointing, the amount of miles I ride these days is disappointing, OFSC issues are also disappointing but I wont quit...........never !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Old Sledder said:

Maybe we all just need to move to Wawa

 

 

Years ago, Haliburton was viewed as a "Wawa" by GTA sledders. Long seasons with abundant snow from December to April.

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2 minutes ago, Cuyuna said:

Years ago, Haliburton was viewed as a "Wawa" by GTA sledders. Long seasons with abundant snow from December to April.

For sure, now for all the reasons above, not so much. All joking aside I am honestly considering this type of move. Housing is relatively inexpensive, lifestyle is laid back and relaxed, and outdoor activities are everywhere. Downside is distance to healthcare, shopping choices and far fewer cultural and/or external entertainment opportunities. 

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47 minutes ago, Sledguy74 said:

My passion for snowmobiling started in 1977 when I was a toddler out with my dad and will continue for the rest of my life.

 

There was a time when everyone thought paying $10,000 for a sled was too much now its up to $20,000. Some of is will see $30,000 sleds some day............looks at SxS's. On a side note who ever would have imagined a new GMC Denali Duramax crew cab or Ford Superduty Powerstroke would be almost $90,000 + HST.

 

I remember riding Golden Triangle trails BEFORE there ever was an OFSC and those permits were $20 and grooming was all done my Skidoo Alpines and club maps were photocopied 8.5 x 11 sheets.

 

I too am fortunate to be able to afford to trade when I want too. But my love of this sport motivated me to build a career that allows me the luxury of enjoying it.

 

The weather is disappointing, trails closing is disappointing, the amount of miles I ride these days is disappointing, OFSC issues are also disappointing but I wont quit...........never !!

 

We are all in the same boat. Snowmobiling has always been a major part of my life. Next autumn I'll be pining for the winter of winters - just like always. However, my naivete has been surpassed by realism.

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cost of sleds is going up, and will go up with inflation... it is what it is. maintain them longer, more often, and better and get your years, and mileage out of them. buy, non-current, buy pre-owned, penny pinch to get you where you want to be.

 

for our weather issue this year.... it was the winter after a HUGE elnino... it is historically common to have a bad winter (for sledders) for the few years after an event like this. each year, until the next elnino will be better. we are still riding in wawa/dubreuilville, and points north. you just need to go where the snow is or resolve yourself to ride closer to home less on years like this, saving wear and tear on your sleds... or get out all together if you cant take the issues from these weather events.

 

even with the poor weather, and 3 warm ups, as long as the forecasted temps hold, we will be riding in april. with that... it means we could have rode at least 1 day per month for 5 months out of the year. the weather was weird, no doubt but, In reality it was a "normal length winter, and riding season" near superior".

 

your results, and feelings on this post may vary. Ski

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There are still folks on here that have put on plenty of miles in what some would consider a bad year, imagine the amount they would put on in a good year !

Comes down to how much do you want to commit to the the sport, there will always be places to ride, you just need to put your mind and wallet to it, to make it happen, or pass and hope for a better year next year.

Sled prices are silly, but if you are low mileage kind of person, they will last you many trouble free years, with some TLC....if you are the ones racking up the miles like some, that also means you have the $$$ to ride that much and some new iron each year or two, is already in the budget. 

 

Still riding to be had this year, if you want...otherwise next year will be a great one, right :cheers:

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"even with the poor weather, and 3 warm ups, as long as the forecasted temps hold, we will be riding in april. with that... it means we could have rode at least 1 day per month for 5 months out of the year. the weather was weird, no doubt but, In reality it was a "normal length winter, and riding season" near superior".

"your results, and feelings on this post may vary. Ski"

 

Totally agree with Cuyuna's original post and Ski's oberservation.

Where I live trailering is the only way I can sled. Not as fortunate to be able to upgrade at anytime but with an understanding non sledding WIFE and some fancy accounting will be upgrading in 2018.

Ski is right on. This season I've put on 3750 kms. All by the first week of March and am passing up on a trip to add more to the total. The snow and trails around District 13 have been great this season.

Be safe everyone!

Keep the black on tne white!

 

 

 

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I agree that this winter,and last,were very disappointing.And,i wouldn't mind a cheaper sled.But,am I the only one who remembers the winters of 2014 and 2015?Weren't they record setting winters for cold & snow amounts?(at least here in SW Ontario).I think in 2015 I rode from club houses in Strathroy or St Marys 6 weekends in a row,and there were trails available in district 5 before and after.I remember hearing that District 5 had available trails for 12 weeks consecutively and that had never happened before ever.It was only 2 years ago that polar vortex talk replaced global warming.It's easy to get "down" on a crap winter,but I believe weather is more of a cycle and not necesarrily global warming.Lake Erie went from basically 100% ice coverage one year,almost none the next!

Next year will be better.

 

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I'm with Marcs... we have in "southern" Ontario had two poor years. This most recent was not due to a lack of snow fall. If I recall correctly Orillia exhausted their snow removal budget this winter and had a total 14 feet of snow come down. The challenges this season as those who want to and do understand was the early snow before anything under it had a chance to get frozen and then the massive prolonged thaw. Imagine the snow and the riding without the melt downs. 2 years ago I recall driving through Midland and not being able to see the fronts of some of the houses due to the height of the snow piled up. I believe snowfall then was in the range of about 14 feet. Or going along the groomed snow bank at the side of a bridge crossing the 400 hwy looking down and realizing the side wall of the bridge is barely visible. A slight turn and down I go to the hwy below.

 

I also remember the seasons of 14/15 and 13/14. Lots of cold and lots of snow. Sometimes people only recall the most recent and overlook the even recent past. Cycles in nature and weather can be measured in much more than just years or seasons. Often decades and centuries.

 

For a number of years people have been lamenting the decreasing water levels in Georgian Bay, predicting doom and gloom, laying blame to a host of various things. Being an "older guy" I have pictures and clear memories from 50 years ago. Buildings don't move. Our family spent a lot of time in the Wasaga Beach area starting when I was about 1 year old. We have pictures showing where the water was in relation to still standing buildings 50 and 50+ years ago. Guess what... in the late 70's the water came way up endangering those buildings. It has since receded to the levels of the 50's and 60's which is when everyone prophesied doom and gloom.

 

Give it time... people are professing doom and gloom for snowmobiling due to changes in snow and weather. The cycles will continue to come and go long after we are all gone.

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