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Am I "Part of the Problem"


AdamGamble

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22 minutes ago, RAMSOMAIR said:

As for big lug tracks ruining the trail, i beg to differ after witnessing the carnage this weekend from the old iron that was let loose on the trails on family day wknd. These old beasts were everywhere and with their 1/2" and 3/4" lug tracks, I can attest to the full on spinning and washing all the snow off the trail lol. followed a few and not one track was left behind them, cleared it all off due to spinning and no traction. No I don't run a huge track (1.25) and i have plenty of power (Sidewinder), but I don't blow any snow off the trail or wash it all off. Another reason why the "free" wknd is not working in my opinion!

 

The warm temperatures would be a huge contributing factor to the trail deterioration. The snow was turning to snush and the trails were falling apart in many areas regardless

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52 minutes ago, stoney said:

Anyone who has rode in QC will know they have winter trails for ATV's and sleds......I have yet to actually see an ATV while riding there.

 

The free weekend is just putting another nail in the coffin for an already fragile system.... 

 

Every time I have been there I've seen atvs side by sides and atvs with tracks.  Quebec has their s?*' together......

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1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

 

The warm temperatures would be a huge contributing factor to the trail deterioration. The snow was turning to snush and the trails were falling apart in many areas regardless

Agree the warm temps and high traffic is the cause. big lug or small wouldn't make much of a difference in this weather both will chew it up.  Although in general I think the bigger lugs do tear more up with the wrong person on the throttle. I think you could ride a big lug track without destroying the corners and trails but at the end of the day most just giver hell. It's all up to the rider.  

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3 hours ago, gobills said:

Every time I have been there I've seen atvs side by sides and atvs with tracks.  Quebec has their s?*' together......

 

Interesting....never seen a one. I have only rode during the week, wonder if that matters?

QC for sure has a good system.....I just wonder what  the financials are like over there.

 

2 hours ago, Hkb82 said:

Agree the warm temps and high traffic is the cause. big lug or small wouldn't make much of a difference in this weather both will chew it up.  Although in general I think the bigger lugs do tear more up with the wrong person on the throttle. I think you could ride a big lug track without destroying the corners and trails but at the end of the day most just giver hell. It's all up to the rider.  

 

You happen to know any larger lugged track riders that fall into that category......:icon_munching:

 

I always have disliked riding, or skiing for that matter in warmer temps, it's just not right....but to each their own.

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48 minutes ago, stoney said:

You happen to know any larger lugged track riders that fall into that category......:icon_munching:

Nope 

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3 hours ago, Blake G said:

Thanks for posting Blake. If anyone had any doubts about the 'direction' of these people being hired as 'publicity' for the OFSC, they should doubt no longer.

 

While riding New Brunswick trails recently, had a trail courtesy episode that just warmed my heart....travelling at my usual consistent speed, I was overtaken by a couple of other sledders. The first one to come up behind me flashed his high beams a few times which is quite noticeable in the handle bar mirrors. Next, he held station with my sled for several seconds, allowing me time to give him a 'go ahead' signal with my left hand. Both sleds passed, then took off. Last sled gave me the last sled in line signal and a wave.

 

Save your money folks. With Ontario trails in the firm grip of a money oriented circle jerk driven by the OEM's and their flunkies and lackeys, you will need it for travelling.

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jim, I understand your distaste for the current ofsc, and the Lester's but, be careful what you ask for. for years the club elders, club orgs, and mfg'rs have been trying to figure out how to get the younger crowd involved to help prolong the sport of snowmobiling. now with the advent of freeriding, back country riding, mountain riding, exploring offtrail, and snowbikes, the younger crowd is dipping their feet in the pond. are they inexperienced, do they need help, and education to be good stewards of the land? yes but, not all of them. embrace them, or lose them. now I am not saying the ofsc a trail based org, to get involved in making "offtrail riding areas" for this group but, if you don't try to work with them, they will last longer than all of us based on age alone.

 

lets take your wish, and these younger people leave trail riding altogether, and develop offtrail areas and stay off the trails. now you lost that demographic again, and have no real future plan for the trail riders, except the current model, which lets face it... with the aging volunteer base is "don't die", we need to use you up.

 

if these younger people get organized and leave the trail community, you lose all those permit buyers (I know the argument, none of them buy permits anyway, which may be true to an extent but, ALL is a pretty big brush to paint them with). but, you lose their youthful enthusiasm, their time, and energy to help the trail system, and all of the money, funding, economics for trail riding.

 

I like both, everyone sees me as offtrail only but, in reality it is far from the truth. we love trail riding, love fishing, and love the sport overall but, you have to stop acting like the old "get off my lawn you punk kids", or they will do just that, and you will be left with nothing but, memories of the good ole days when you could ride the entire province on one system, and little to no trails to ride without traveling great distances.  

 

do the kids need guidance and education, yes, no doubt... but, if you push this group, and this generation of sledders and they WILL take their ball, and their energy, and MONEY, and do their own thing, laughing at you the whole time.

 

I don't have the solutions but, I can see it isn't shunning a group due to the sleds/bikes they ride, the stand up style, or the clothing they wear. if we go down that road, prepare for this to be the last chapter in organized trail riding in North America. when the trail system disintegrates, it was the failure to work with one another among groups of sledders, that ruined it for everyone in organized sledding.    

 

I know it comes across as harsh but, I am only trying to tie my first paragraph to the last, no disrespect meant: 

 

remember, you asked for it. Ski

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4 minutes ago, skidooboy said:

jim, I understand your distaste for the current ofsc, and the Lester's but, be careful what you ask for. for years the club elders, club orgs, and mfg'rs have been trying to figure out how to get the younger crowd involved to help prolong the sport of snowmobiling. now with the advent of freeriding, back country riding, mountain riding, exploring offtrail, and snowbikes, the younger crowd is dipping their feet in the pond. are they inexperienced, do they need help, and education to be good stewards of the land? yes but, not all of them. embrace them, or lose them. now I am not saying the ofsc a trail based org, to get involved in making "offtrail riding areas" for this group but, if you don't try to work with them, they will last longer than all of us based on age alone.

 

lets take your wish, and these younger people leave trail riding altogether, and develop offtrail areas and stay off the trails. now you lost that demographic again, and have no real future plan for the trail riders, except the current model, which lets face it... with the aging volunteer base is "don't die", we need to use you up.

 

if these younger people get organized and leave the trail community, you lose all those permit buyers (I know the argument, none of them buy permits anyway, which may be true to an extent but, ALL is a pretty big brush to paint them with). but, you lose their youthful enthusiasm, their time, and energy to help the trail system, and all of the money, funding, economics for trail riding.

 

I like both, everyone sees me as offtrail only but, in reality it is far from the truth. we love trail riding, love fishing, and love the sport overall but, you have to stop acting like the old "get off my lawn you punk kids", or they will do just that, and you will be left with nothing but, memories of the good ole days when you could ride the entire province on one system, and little to no trails to ride without traveling great distances.  

 

do the kids need guidance and education, yes, no doubt... but, if you push this group, and this generation of sledders and they WILL take their ball, and their energy, and MONEY, and do their own thing, laughing at you the whole time.

 

I don't have the solutions but, I can see it isn't shunning a group due to the sleds/bikes they ride, the stand up style, or the clothing they wear. if we go down that road, prepare for this to be the last chapter in organized trail riding in North America. when the trail system disintegrates, it was the failure to work with one another among groups of sledders, that ruined it for everyone in organized sledding.    

 

I know it comes across as harsh but, I am only trying to tie my first paragraph to the last, no disrespect meant: 

 

remember, you asked for it. Ski

 

Well said Ski, I totally agree with you.. Thank you

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Very well said Ski!

Also to paint everyone with the big brush stroke that these young riders are ASSHATS because they ride an XRS, wear an open faced helmet, stand up, ride aggressively and wear a backpack! Then include this guy born in the 1950's as one of them. Definitely ride an XRS, have a 2018 XRS on order and have done the other qualifcations occasionally. Also I guess we need to include my son who really fits this big brush stroke profile to a T. Rides a Freeride, wears the open face, stands up and sports approximately $7,000 worth of tattoos over his body. Definite ASSHAT RIDER. 

 

Just an example.

That you can't paint everyone of these young riders that this sport so desperately needs with that broad brush stroke.

They will take their ball and go play somewhere else not on OFSC trails. Ruining it for all of us to ride trails in Ontario.

We need to embrace this generation and educate them. Not shun them and go play somewhere else.

 

Just a side note when you first see Jayy(My Son). You'll think, Wow what a wing nut. LOL!

Wrong.

Worked in construction for 12 years. Long hours. Managed to play Junior Lacrosse while still working the long hours, travelling all over Ontario.

Now he's one of the big bosses where he works.

Owns his own home, has a six month old son and finally getting married soon. Reverse order to alot but that's Jayy!

Another example of not painting somebody with that broad brush stroke!

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Ski, while I agree with the idea that dealing in generalities and making assumptions is not productive, I must absolutely disagree with you that the OFSC needs to embrace the off trail riding style.  This organization has a plethora of problems funding and maintaining the trail network for the riders who want to ride trails.  To expect this volunteer based organization to develop areas for freeriders to go is just ludicrous. 

 

Insurance and liability alone would kill us.  We have already had cases where the OFSC was found partially liable because a rider, uninsured, unpermitted, and intoxicated, used the trails to get to a hydro line, where he went freeriding and got clotheslined on a guy wire at night.  Because the trails provided access to the area, the OFSC was found partially responsible.

 

The only way for freeriding to work is for the freeriders themselves to get organized and find places to play.  That does not mean, as I heard on a recent sled review on SnowTrax TV, "You don't have to stay on the groomed trail, but can jump off into the powder on the side of the trail."  This type of behaviour costs us trails every year!

 

Not all of these riders are necessarily 'entitled' or uncaring.  I suspect, and maybe I am being naive, that they are truly ignorant, in the proper sense of the word. 

 

I believe that we and the OFSC do not do a good enough job of educating the sledders to the consequences of their actions, and to the behaviour expected of them when on the trails.

 

We have had an example this past winter when a trail had an impassible water hole.  The trail was closed, (unavailable on the IAFG, RED on the guide), yet sleds were riding the trail and detouring around the water across the farmer's winter wheat.  We are now in negotiations with the farmer to try to keep the trail for another year.

 

 

 

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While I think there will always be differences of opinions, and many peoples opinion of the OFSC is already fixed (rightly or wrongly).  As ski has said it is something that needs to be dealt with by the OFSC for the good of our sport, especially south of Sudbury/North Bay.  We are not going to change the manufactures or buying public's preferences.  Ski-Doo is going to continue selling Summits/Freerides/XRS's, Polaris is going to continue selling the RMK/Assualt/XCR ect.  and people will continue to purchase them.  The OFSC needs to do a better job of educating the permit buyers/trail users of the rules for different areas (and they are different).  Up here I see an interesting road/gravel pit off the trail I want to go check out I am free to do so as they are mostly crown land, and are posted otherwise so a "Stay on Trail" campaign up here is not as effective, necessary.  The opposite is true in the south the assumption should be that all land is private and you need to research to find areas that are not private.  

 

In the end a lot of the issues come down to numbers of people.  Up here we have lots of trails/space/open areas and few people, in the south there are lots of people and little space.  What the solution is I am not sure, but ignoring it is not going to work.  

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4 hours ago, skidooboy said:

jim, I understand your distaste for the current ofsc, and the Lester's but, be careful what you ask for. for years the club elders, club orgs, and mfg'rs have been trying to figure out how to get the younger crowd involved to help prolong the sport of snowmobiling. now with the advent of freeriding, back country riding, mountain riding, exploring offtrail, and snowbikes, the younger crowd is dipping their feet in the pond. are they inexperienced, do they need help, and education to be good stewards of the land? yes but, not all of them. embrace them, or lose them. now I am not saying the ofsc a trail based org, to get involved in making "offtrail riding areas" for this group but, if you don't try to work with them, they will last longer than all of us based on age alone.

 

 

remember, you asked for it. Ski

 

Not asking for anything Ski. I already have my plan B in place. But.....

-what do you think volunteers will do when the 'meeting of minds' as suggested by the Lesters takes place and decides that the freeriding crowd should be allowed on the trail system?

-what do you think landowners will do when this happens?

 

 

 

I would suggest for your information, the area on the map circled in green is the only area of the province of Ontario that really counts for the future of Ontario snowmobiling -

map01.jpg.1584a7f24b199c65e1fb85ace75bdf70.jpg

 

 

Ontario's area of largest population, a huge pool of potential sledders of all ages, ethnicities, and other demographics, an area with no snowmobile trails, but with the largest amount of electoral seats. Yet - no apparent plan on the part of snowmobile 'marketers' to exploit this area for future participants. If snowmobiling is not of use to the government in power, then the government in power has no use (or reason to support) snowmobiling. 1

 

And from the article "For years the OEM's and the sanctioning bodies have been crying over our ever aging demographic and the problems that reality foreshadows.
We now have a younger demographic entering our sport and causing trouble as they participate in a somewhat "tweaked" version of snowmobiling - albeit a version which has been widely marketed by the OEMs in an effort to grow the sport and sell more product."

 

Widely marketed all right - in the Lester's snowtrax magazine......

 

1. yah yah - brings economic benefits to the province - but not relevant to the encircled electoral seats which make or break a government's majority. Nor can they really brag about it in any meaningful way.

 


 

 

 

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3 hours ago, sledjunk said:

Ski, while I agree with the idea that dealing in generalities and making assumptions is not productive, I must absolutely disagree with you that the OFSC needs to embrace the off trail riding style.  This organization has a plethora of problems funding and maintaining the trail network for the riders who want to ride trails.  To expect this volunteer based organization to develop areas for freeriders to go is just ludicrous. 

 

 

 

 

Dave, please go back and re-read my post... I didn't say that the ofsc has to embrace the offtrail riding, they should want to embrace that demographic of people. they have the sleds, the energy and the money. get to know them, educate them, work with them... to find out how we can work together for all of snowmobiling to continue to exist. like I said they are the future, they are younger. they have the staying power, WE DONT, WE ARE OLD, AND WORN OUT.

 

jim, the freeriding crowd IS ALREADY ON THE TRAILS. always has been, always will. the sleds don't cause the damage, it is the rider, and their thumb, and mentality. that is where enforcement, and education come into play. look at the snowbikes as an example... no studs, one ski, narrower track, and truly cause less damage to the trail, when ridden reasonably. if there were 1000 of these in Ontario, and the ofsc says, not in my back yard, they lose out on x1000 trail permit dollars, and the opportunity to grow this group of individuals as the next group of worker, volunteers, club members. and do you think they are not going to ride your trails, if you wont let them buy a permit? hell no... they are going to ride for free.

 

Michigan recently came up with the position on snowbikes, they are only allowed on multi use atv, snow trails, as they are deemed kits, and not purpose built. in Michigan to ride a bike with a kit, you have to have a registered/titled bike, purchase 2 offroad permits, one for public lands, and one for the atv trails, AND THE SNOW TRAIL PERMIT.  Michigan gets more from a snowbike, than they do from a snowmobile for revenue of licensure... sleds need a registration (which is good for 3 years), and their snow permit, that is it. with this stance, I can see the snowbike guys, not buying sled trail permits, and riding where they normally do anyway... catch me if you can attitude.

 

if the groups would embrace these genre's, there would be more money in the kitty, for ALL. it is really just like skiing... not too long ago, it was "WE DONT WANT, NEED THESE NEW FANGLED SNOWBOARDS AND THEIR ILK, ON OUR HILLS" ... now snowboarding IS Skiing, and is bigger than skiing ever was. I know it is scary, I know they are different but, why not get to know them, see if we can work with them, for the better of the sport AS A WHOLE?

 

we need to find out what needs to be done to harness their energy, and attention span, to help them, and us. if you get them to buy into, if they help with the trail system, they have easier access to the offtrail opportunities... IT COULD BE A PIVOLTAL MOMENT, IN RIDING GENRE INTERACTIONS. if you close them out, shun them, ect... they wont buy permits at all, and still use the trails to access their offtrail areas. there is no one to stop them.

 

with our demographics getting smaller, and age increasing, WE might as well bump the permit pricing to 500 per sled, and go full on, paid workforce... and let the chips fall where they may.

 

like I said, if you don't get these young people involved, we are in the final chapter of organized sledding IN NORTH AMERCIA.

 

Ski

 

 

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1 hour ago, skidooboy said:

Dave, please go back and re-read my post... I didn't say that the ofsc has to embrace the offtrail riding, they should want to embrace that demographic of people. they have the sleds, the energy and the money. get to know them, educate them, work with them... to find out how we can work together for all of snowmobiling to continue to exist. like I said they are the future, they are younger. they have the staying power, WE DONT, WE ARE OLD, AND WORN OUT.

 

jim, the freeriding crowd IS ALREADY ON THE TRAILS. always has been, always will. the sleds don't cause the damage, it is the rider, and their thumb, and mentality. that is where enforcement, and education come into play. look at the snowbikes as an example... no studs, one ski, narrower track, and truly cause less damage to the trail, when ridden reasonably. if there were 1000 of these in Ontario, and the ofsc says, not in my back yard, they lose out on x1000 trail permit dollars, and the opportunity to grow this group of individuals as the next group of worker, volunteers, club members. and do you think they are not going to ride your trails, if you wont let them buy a permit? hell no... they are going to ride for free.

 

Michigan recently came up with the position on snowbikes, they are only allowed on multi use atv, snow trails, as they are deemed kits, and not purpose built. in Michigan to ride a bike with a kit, you have to have a registered/titled bike, purchase 2 offroad permits, one for public lands, and one for the atv trails, AND THE SNOW TRAIL PERMIT.  Michigan gets more from a snowbike, than they do from a snowmobile for revenue of licensure... sleds need a registration (which is good for 3 years), and their snow permit, that is it. with this stance, I can see the snowbike guys, not buying sled trail permits, and riding where they normally do anyway... catch me if you can attitude.

 

if the groups would embrace these genre's, there would be more money in the kitty, for ALL. it is really just like skiing... not too long ago, it was "WE DONT WANT, NEED THESE NEW FANGLED SNOWBOARDS AND THEIR ILK, ON OUR HILLS" ... now snowboarding IS Skiing, and is bigger than skiing ever was. I know it is scary, I know they are different but, why not get to know them, see if we can work with them, for the better of the sport AS A WHOLE?

 

we need to find out what needs to be done to harness their energy, and attention span, to help them, and us. if you get them to buy into, if they help with the trail system, they have easier access to the offtrail opportunities... IT COULD BE A PIVOLTAL MOMENT, IN RIDING GENRE INTERACTIONS. if you close them out, shun them, ect... they wont buy permits at all, and still use the trails to access their offtrail areas. there is no one to stop them.

 

with our demographics getting smaller, and age increasing, WE might as well bump the permit pricing to 500 per sled, and go full on, paid workforce... and let the chips fall where they may.

 

like I said, if you don't get these young people involved, we are in the final chapter of organized sledding IN NORTH AMERCIA.

 

Ski

 

 

Ski, I stand corrected.  While I still stand by my comments about OFSC and other trail organizations not needing to develop off trail riding areas, I mistakenly attributed that attitude to you. 

 

I am in full agreement with your statements to embrace the younger crowd and their need for education about riding the trails.  I have no problem with them riding off trail on crown land, as long as they have indeed verified that they are on crown land.  Yes, there is an abundance of crown land and forest access roads in the north, but certainly not all of the vacant land is necessarily crown.

 

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2 hours ago, skidooboy said:

jim, the freeriding crowd IS ALREADY ON THE TRAILS. always has been, always will. the sleds don't cause the damage, it is the rider, and their thumb, and mentality. that is where enforcement, and education come into play. look at the snowbikes as an example... no studs, one ski, narrower track, and truly cause less damage to the trail, when ridden reasonably. if there were 1000 of these in Ontario, and the ofsc says, not in my back yard, they lose out on x1000 trail permit dollars, and the opportunity to grow this group of individuals as the next group of worker, volunteers, club members. and do you think they are not going to ride your trails, if you wont let them buy a permit? hell no... they are going to ride for free.

 

 

 

 

 

I really don't think that we are at odds here Ski - I applaud the energy of the Moose Trails initiative in D'Ville and the Hidden Boondocking place in Wawa....please re-read the article to which Blake posted the link - it is more about snowtrax magazine and the Lesters wanting someone else to assume responsiblity for creating places for the off trail crowd to ride.

 

Lester - "Denying free riders a place to vent is not the answer. Providing viable places to free ride legally is the answer.
I truly believe the leading sanctioning groups like the OFSC, the FCMQ, NYSSA and MNUSA need to have a meeting of the minds and bring together these new snowmobilers, the OEMs and the clubs in an effort to begin a constructive, positive dialogue that presents something more than "no" as the answer. "

 

(to which at this point, the Lesters and their publications have presented absolute square root of 0 in terms of solutions)

 

As I posed in a previous post some months ago, 'why don't the Lesters set this up?'.

 

Frankly, I think the remarks added afterward to the article are pretty accurate - this article has nothing to do with welcoming young sledders or educating them. It is pushing an agenda that has been on-going and repetitive for several months if not years, by those who supposedly are providing publicity for the Ontario TRAIL system. Quoting the responses below....

 

Andy Johnston ·

"Providing viable places to free ride legally is the answer. " "If you say so....
It may be the answer but as fee paying TRAIL riders in ONTARIO why should we give a *&^%^???? If the Mfrs, and YOU, the media , and the riders of these machines want the space to free ride as opposed to breaking the law, then YOU can all get organized and find the geography and make it happen.....why would you waste your time with this argument in Central and Southern Ontario where this geography is completely nonexistent.."
 
Barry Wilkinson ·

Red Wine Taster at Retired

"The freeriding asshats and publications like Marks that support them can take a long walk off the proverbial short pier. Mark started this conversation 7 years ago at the OFSC Convention in Ottawa. The membership told him to take a hike then and nothings changed now. Want to freeride? Visit BC or the ChicChocs. Or buy 1000 acres somewhere and invite all your friends. Just stay off our landowners properties.
Don't know why the OFSC continues to deal with Supertrax."

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I read it and understand the message, and yes mark has blinders on, and isn't listening to his readers, in this case. with having the contract with the ofsc (we bought 3 permits the last 2 years, and haven't saw one mag from them in over a year) they should have supertrax as trail friendly rag, with trail articles... and they should start a freeriding mag/rag and seek their viable riding options they are asking for, through themselves and that demographic.

 

if this is how the ofsc members fell, then the clubs, and their votes need to be heard at the agm, have the lesters and supertrax removed from all ofsc doings, unless they remain true to the trail rider demographic, and tell the bog that the ofsc is and always will be organized TRAIL RIDING ONLY, and if a group within the group wants to seek out viable freeriding areas, that group needs to start their own group, and provide that viable area for their client base, at their cost, time, and promotion, with their own funding.

 

but, what you are asking in your one post is to eliminate freeriding sleds, and their riders, altogether from the trail system.

 "Not asking for anything Ski. I already have my plan B in place. But.....

-what do you think volunteers will do when the 'meeting of minds' as suggested by the Lesters takes place and decides that the freeriding crowd should be allowed on the trail system? -what do you think landowners will do when this happens?" 

 

last I checked, if they have a permit, ALL snow vehicles, with a track in the back, and ski (skis) in the front, listed as a snowmobile are able to buy a permit and ride the ENTIRE OFSC SYSTEM.

the land owners are going to do what they want, it is their land, sleds, atvs, horses, skiers, squatters or not.

 

this drives a wedge between groups of snowmobilers based on the type of machine they own/ride. doing this alienates your younger demographic that the system needs to retain, to enjoy longevity of the sport as a whole.

 

 

Ski

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Supertrax is always a fast read. 20 minutes max. Don't put much weight on any of their articles. Far to many pictures showing crossed up over exaggerated high speed maneuvers. Possibly not the best way to show responsible OFSC trail riding.

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In my opinion, we can't even begin expect the OFSC and local clubs which are made up of volunteers to provide off trail areas. "Permitted" off trail areas just encourage riders to go off trail wherever they feel, whenever they see fresh powder or snow drifts. I have experienced this first hand, as the snowmobile trail runs through my property and my neighbour's property. The liability the OFSC currently has is huge, let alone adding permitted free riding into the mix. My neighbours also express the same concerns.

 

As for the younger generation, they aren't interested in the meeting and procedure side of things. I have found they are more willing to come out and help with trail set up and maintenance but when it comes to a meeting time, they are occupied with their own lives. The active members of the local clubs typically are middle aged and have more free time.

 

To say that snowmobiling is going to disappear because the clubs don't go out of their way to cater to off trail riding does not mean that snowmobiling will die out. The dealers and the manufacturers promote free riding because these are the guys at the parts counter first thing Monday morning. 

 

We need to have our trail patrol actively being present on our trail network. Upset landowners in Southern Ontario will be the main reason snowmobile trails will be shut down, as they are the backbone to the trail network. I believe the OFSC and the local clubs should concentrate on improving the infrastructure of the trail system we currently have.

 

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41 minutes ago, coldfinger said:

In my opinion, we can't even begin expect the OFSC and local clubs which are made up of volunteers to provide off trail areas. "Permitted" off trail areas just encourage riders to go off trail wherever they feel, whenever they see fresh powder or snow drifts. I have experienced this first hand, as the snowmobile trail runs through my property and my neighbour's property. The liability the OFSC currently has is huge, let alone adding permitted free riding into the mix. My neighbours also express the same concerns.

 

As for the younger generation, they aren't interested in the meeting and procedure side of things. I have found they are more willing to come out and help with trail set up and maintenance but when it comes to a meeting time, they are occupied with their own lives. The active members of the local clubs typically are middle aged and have more free time.

 

To say that snowmobiling is going to disappear because the clubs don't go out of their way to cater to off trail riding does not mean that snowmobiling will die out. The dealers and the manufacturers promote free riding because these are the guys at the parts counter first thing Monday morning. 

 

We need to have our trail patrol actively being present on our trail network. Upset landowners in Southern Ontario will be the main reason snowmobile trails will be shut down, as they are the backbone to the trail network. I believe the OFSC and the local clubs should concentrate on improving the infrastructure of the trail system we currently have.

 

 

 

Well said

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I don't think the issue is free riders riding on the trail system, as long as they are on a permitted snowmobile.  At that point, they are welcomed trail users, assuming they ride responsibly.  The issue is when the free riders stray off trail along the trail system.  At that point, they are jeopardizing the sustainability of the trail system unless they ABSOLUTELY KNOW that they are on crown land.

Incidentally, not all hydro lines are crown land.

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12 hours ago, sledjunk said:

I don't think the issue is free riders riding on the trail system, as long as they are on a permitted snowmobile.  At that point, they are welcomed trail users, assuming they ride responsibly.  The issue is when the free riders stray off trail along the trail system.  At that point, they are jeopardizing the sustainability of the trail system unless they ABSOLUTELY KNOW that they are on crown land.

Incidentally, not all hydro lines are crown land.

Nailed it.  

 

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16 hours ago, sledjunk said:

I don't think the issue is free riders riding on the trail system, as long as they are on a permitted snowmobile.  At that point, they are welcomed trail users, assuming they ride responsibly.  The issue is when the free riders stray off trail along the trail system.  At that point, they are jeopardizing the sustainability of the trail system unless they ABSOLUTELY KNOW that they are on crown land.

Incidentally, not all hydro lines are crown land.

..... or the Trans Canada pipeline.

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