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Top B102 closed in Dist 6


old sledhead

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28 minutes ago, Canadoo said:

"Blaming" is your word.

 

There are always more to these stories, the easy way out is to say that a sledders chased a deer and rode fast.  Experience tells me that's not the whole story.

 

 

The reason is 1 million % irrelevant....they own the property...they can do what they want ......they owe Ontario snowmobilers nothing,

..have my support 100%...

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Im a die hard sledder and seeing people ride off trail,or with loud pipes and littering pisses me off ,imagine if you owned the property and were not a sledder

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10 minutes ago, wrightonalan said:

Im a die hard sledder and seeing people ride off trail,or with loud pipes and littering pisses me off ,imagine if you owned the property and were not a sledder

 

Exactly. The landowners who aren't snowmobilers have absolutely nothing to gain by allowing a trail on THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY. They are just being kind and generous donors for which we should all be grateful and respectful of their concerns. Those who are snowmobilers really only have one benefit and that is easy access to the trail to ride from home.

 

I have seen people out walking their dogs on the trails. I don't know if they are the landowners or not and it's totally irrelevant. I see them gather their dogs close to them stop and stand at the edge of the trail as we approach. We slow to walking speed and exchange a wave as we pass. I also see other snowmobilers approaching the person and their dogs riding at perhaps 70 -80 km/hr or even more. They don't slow down and spray the person and dogs with snow chunks as they pass.

 

If that were the landowner I wonder how well those actions would be received.  

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I just rode through this section yesterday and saw 3 deer and two people walking dogs on a leash. I slowed for both as did the two other sleds following me.  I also waved to a property owner outside on their drive right beside the trail.

 

Last Friday when I rode through I encountered 8 deer in this well signed section that must be a winter "deer yard".  I slowed down considerably to allow them to find a section of the trail they wanted to exit from which wasn't for 200 yards down the trail.

 

This is the only section of trail that I have spotted deer on in district 6 and it happens almost every time I go through.  I understand the ignorance of sledders when it comes to chasing deer, they are just not educated on the stress and harm they cause.  They must think it's fun.  The signs warn of deer presence but not the correct action to take.  I believe the chasing of deer would be a common occurrence there and to be the primary reason for revoking permission.  Speed is number two.

 

Too late now, but leaving ungroomed speed bump sections and reduced speed signs may have helped. The Wilno Tavern bussiness will be reduced by this action.

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1 hour ago, 02Sled said:

 

So what would your theory be? What do you think would prompt a long standing landowner who has had a long time trail on their property to revoke permission to access their property. Something has obviously changed to prompt them to make such a decision. It couldn't possibly be

- people riding off trail

- people riding closed trails before they are ready

- people mouthing off to the landowner because they had the audacity to be walking on their property and impeding the snowmobilers ability to run the trail at high speeds

- people leaving their garbage on the trail for the landowner to clean up

 

After all if I was one of those landowners it would just annoy the heck out of me if a snowmobiler didn't do any of the above. I know I would be ticked off to find

- I could walk on my property, perhaps with my dog and the snowmobilers would slow right down and wave to me as they pass

- I didn't need to carry a garbage bag around picking up garbage and beer empties

- I could look out at my hay field and not see any tracks running through the middle of it

 

Lots of assumptions there...

What we know is:

rooster tails at the stop sign, speeding and chasing deer.   

 

You mention "long time landowner". How do you know that?  

 

Even if true things change, the bill 100 legislation as an example has scared some landowners.

 

I'd argue that none of those factors you mention are new to snowmobiling.  The chasing deer factor is concerning to me but also wouldn't be the first time a sledders chased wildlife.  Doubt that is a regular occurrence.   I've ridden through there many times over the years with the last time 2 years ago and don't recall deer.

 

It's a railway bed trail, have you ever even ridden it?   

 

Like snowmobilers didn't leave trash or speed on the trails 20 years ago.  Like heavy drinking wasn't a huge issue that is incredibly scarce now.

 

I've been an active club volunteer for nearly 15 years in the Algonquin region and can't say these issues you mention are either widespread or new.

 

The biggest change is the elephant in the room and I already mentioned that in another thread: non sledders buying once vacant or limited use land for their personal use.  They will never like snowmobiling.  

 

Would you want sleds ripping by your house all winter?  

 

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Sure seems kind of strange that a landowner would close a trail mid season due to Bill 100. There has to be a trigger that would cause them to revoke the land use agreement they would have signed for this season. The straw that broke the camels back.

 

Bottom line. It's their property and their decision regardless of the reason and whether anyone thinks it's justified or not. The only perception that counts is that of the landowner.

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Sorry for a hi jack but let it be known that chasing any wildlife with a snowmobile or any vehicle is a serious offence which will result in your vehicle being confiscated and jail time. It is time to blow the whistle on some of these people. Rant over.

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What do people get out of from chasing a deer, is it some kind of enjoyment??? 

I see the intrepid snowmobier is in the area today ,  wonder how they made it around the closed section or is there a way now at all? 

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We are on our next leg of the RAP tomorrow and we will be attempting to navigate through this location. Hopefully we can find do a safe way to pass.

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close all the trails and it can be like the wild west again, Im surprised the landowners weren't satisfied with the toque or pair of gloves they received, seems more than sufficient, chase the deer and the people who do they think they are walking on our trail, go walk on the 400 series highways its safer jeesh!

(just kidding needed to rant)

I've seen too many idiots and unfortunately like everything else the rest will pay for they're stupidity and ignorance!

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Maybe when you get your trail pass there should be more information on garbage left on private property 

Trespassing on private property 

more social media awareness about land owners closing the trails across their properties

More and more trails being closed for good and you can not blame the land owners for closing them

not sure what a land owner gets out of a bunch of loud sleds coming through the trail next to their house 3 am in the morning

 

" TRAIL CLOSED"

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6 minutes ago, Muskoka cat guy said:

Maybe when you get your trail pass there should be more information on garbage left on private property 

Trespassing on private property 

more social media awareness about land owners closing the trails across their properties

More and more trails being closed for good and you can not blame the land owners for closing them

not sure what a land owner gets out of a bunch of loud sleds coming through the trail next to their house 3 am in the morning

 

" TRAIL CLOSED"

 

Not a bad idea.... now that all trail permit purchases are online perhaps make it compulsory to watch an educational video and answer a quiz to prove you watched before you are able to purchase your permit.

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17 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

 

Not a bad idea.... now that all trail permit purchases are online perhaps make it compulsory to watch an educational video and answer a quiz to prove you watched before you are able to purchase your permit.

Not going to happen

: God is great, BEER is good and PEOPLE ARE CRAZY: They don't  read the agreement as it is!!!!

As to another post there should be a link yet this year with running roads next year it will be lost.

Now who out there is willing to come help the 6 to 12 members of this club find a reroute to this trail .  Who have another 100 km of trail to worry about!

Also the landowners are long standing 15 to 20 years , all I can tell you is what they told the club .Its there property and as I said before if I was not a snowmobiler or cared about my small town  you would have a hard sell for me after the past two years

One last thing I also own part of this rail bed in the eganville area ,I purchased it to help keep a trail open and a bridge in place.

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56 minutes ago, old sledhead said:

Not going to happen

: God is great, BEER is good and PEOPLE ARE CRAZY: They don't  read the agreement as it is!!!!

As to another post there should be a link yet this year with running roads next year it will be lost.

Now who out there is willing to come help the 6 to 12 members of this club find a reroute to this trail .  Who have another 100 km of trail to worry about!

Also the landowners are long standing 15 to 20 years , all I can tell you is what they told the club .Its there property and as I said before if I was not a snowmobiler or cared about my small town  you would have a hard sell for me after the past two years

One last thing I also own part of this rail bed in the eganville area ,I purchased it to help keep a trail open and a bridge in place.

Ya I don't blame them for closing the trail if they aren't sledders.  We used to have a trail off our property to the lake and closed it after we got woken up numerous times at 4am, but that was when sledders were nicer (in the 80s)...

 

I just have a hard time believing it's recent developments in snowmobiler etiquette that has caused problems. These things have always occured. Have the demographics changed that much recently?  

 

A railway bed trail is prime for an easement.  Would not surprise me in the slightest if bill 100 is part of the reason.

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It is a contentious issue. I own 100 ac that has what was once known as a "road" thru it. It is a groomed trail now. The "road" is now on my property and not on the original road allowance, which then ran ALONG the property line. We use our property year round. We now have sleds, 4 wheelers, jeeps, trucks etc travelling thru our property.  They think they have the god given right to be there, because there is an existing trail.(not a legal road allowance). I am a land owner in other areas of the province as well. I recognize that we need and value these trails within the province. I am continually amazed at the expectation and perceived "rights" of these users. The members of our club are aging. I am not yet retired and still working to put kids thru school. I fear for the future when I have the time to  further contribute to my region and club. The sense of entitlement and disrespect that is displayed by some has to change. I have personally been harassed for being on my property while a passing snowmobiler has been slowed down due to my use and enjoyment of my own property. That's hard to take! I love my land, I also love my toys. Please don't force me to choose between using my toys on my land and sharing my land with the rest of the province. 

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Something has to change or else 20km road running will be the norm between trails 

 

how can it be changed with these riders across private properties 

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The word 'entitlement' has been popping up everywhere over the past 5-10 years.  As a business owner having to hire younger staff for duties, i  see this attitude/lifestyle often.  I cannot just accuse the younger generation though, as i have witnessed it with some of my generation as well. 

 

Maybe there should be some kind of system to revoke club memberships somehow.   i know catching these people is half the battle though..   it is sad that a few bad apples from the crowd will ruin things for everyone.  

 

 

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It Official just received this

 

As per last Saturday's email the section of B102 between Hidden Trail Rd & Cardinal Rd is being closed this morning. It will be rerouted by following the roads, Hidden Trail Rd, Scenic Rd & Cardinal Rd, a distance of 3 kms. 
 
Terry please update the trail status for this area. Red for the former trail & Yellow for the road detour. 

 

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There is a excellent sign on a trail in Barrie B 112B that runs across a wheat field.

 

The signs says stay on trail or lose permission to cross 

 

So far so good snowblowers are obeying the land owners wishes.

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2 hours ago, snowman said:

The word 'entitlement' has been popping up everywhere over the past 5-10 years.  As a business owner having to hire younger staff for duties, i  see this attitude/lifestyle often.  I cannot just accuse the younger generation though, as i have witnessed it with some of my generation as well. 

 

Maybe there should be some kind of system to revoke club memberships somehow.   i know catching these people is half the battle though..   it is sad that a few bad apples from the crowd will ruin things for everyone.  

 

 

I don't believe that most of the people who are responsible for going off the trail belong to clubs. They buy the permit on line and may or may not fill in a club name on the application however, that does not make them a club member in a lot of clubs so using that as a deterrent won't work IMHO. We need enforcement or I fear we are doomed.

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19 minutes ago, Muskoka cat guy said:

There is a excellent sign on a trail in Barrie B 112B that runs across a wheat field.

 

The signs says stay on trail or lose permission to cross 

 

So far so good snowblowers are obeying the land owners wishes.

 

Unfortunately there are people that were let down by the education system. They were allowed to go through school without learning how to read. Last weekend there was an abundance of fresh snow, at least 18 inches in some areas. We were riding around the outside of what was obviously a farm field, following the staked perimeter where there were plenty of signs saying STAY ON TRAIL OR PERMISSION REVOKED. Looking into that farm field of fresh powder and what do you see, fresh sled tracks from the class dunce that didn't learn how to read. Either that or the person that figured it applied to everyone but them.

 

Like Piston said we need enforcement. Give Trail Patrol and the penalties some real teeth. Have the people going off trail paying restitution to the land owners for crop damage as an example. I am sure it would go a long way to appease a landowner if they saw the club out there enforcing things and charging people who didn't stay on trail. When they don't see any real action other than signs I can see a landowner losing faith in behaviours changing.

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Keeping a close eye on this thread and the ensuing discussion is very productive. Someone should take the suggestions to the 'powers to be', i.e. clubs take the initiative to do what it takes, may it be signage, penalties etc, when purchasing permits, make them sign their life away (you know what i mean), if Clubs have a list of membership derived from Trail permit purchases -> use that to inform your membership. When i purchased my trail permit a club was suggested, i had no affiliation so i took the suggested club but up to now no one has contacted me. So i gathered that information was only to distribute the funds. Not to keep me informed of the club activities.

 

I am a new sledder but long time off roader (30+ years) and i've seen the same trends in that sport too. A few uninformed folks causing grief for the masses. I suggest more education. i.e. if i did not read this thread i would not know the trail closure / the landowner issues. How many riders outside this thread is 'informed'.

 

When i bought my trail permit, my email address was collected. Using that list why not send a bi-weekly email (during the sledding season) to all those trail permit holders informing them of the issues in point form, make it easy to digest (not suggesting a long email, no one will read it).

i.e.

- District # - B### trail closed from Point A to Point B - due to 'reason'

- No chasing wild life

- No alcohol

- Caught off trail will result in permit revoked without refund

+ Positives

- Suggestions of loop tours

- Upcoming events

- feature a (one) suggested business/establishment as a way to pay for the email cost

 

food for thought ....

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10 hours ago, snowman said:

The word 'entitlement' has been popping up everywhere over the past 5-10 years.  As a business owner having to hire younger staff for duties, i  see this attitude/lifestyle often.  I cannot just accuse the younger generation though, as i have witnessed it with some of my generation as well. 

 

 

 

 

See it in the summer time, parking in front of a driveway. When confronted, they (adults old enough to know better) say sorry & then move the vehicle. No reason to park it there, but reduces the walk by 15 or so feet.

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1 hour ago, revrnd said:

See it in the summer time, parking in front of a driveway. When confronted, they (adults old enough to know better) say sorry & then move the vehicle. No reason to park it there, but reduces the walk by 15 or so feet.

 

It's because there are so many "special" people.

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We rode on the detour today and luckily the road is snow covered with sand in the middle of the road. It won't be pretty when it warms up and the sun melts the shoulder. Too bad, this may become the new norm in snowmobiling in the southern regions.

 

Jerry

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