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Clubhouse expenses


Faceman

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I have a three part for discussion.

Define a "snowmobile clubhouse"

Define "warming shack"

Should 'clubhouses" be funded by permit dollars or should it strictly be fundraising dollars.

 

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I'll try this one.

A snowmobile clubhouse is a facility that the club uses to hold club meetings, social and fundraising events. Typically larger than a warming shack and usually equipped with heating systems, washrooms or toilets. Many have some type of kitchen area. Most often accessible by automobiles year around.

Warming shacks are smaller buildings that have some sort of heating system and may or may not an  outhouse or portable toilet. They always have yellow snow visible around the perimeter. They are always a welcome site to cold riders.

 Both should be funded by permit dollars if those dollars are needed to keep the facility going. IMHO clubs with clubhouses (even if they are shared use facilities) are strong clubs.

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I do believe (probably wrong)

Snowmobile clubhouse (different then a groomer shack) would be where you club would have its meetings possibly with a kitchen and or bar.

This to my understanding would have the be fundraising funded.

Warming Shack Just as it says small trail side warm up shelter, my guess permit dollars.

 

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Based on the recent loss of our clubhouse we have been given some direction (based on our circumstances). The new trailer the club has installed at the new location and it is considered a warming shack. It will be left unlocked and accessible to all riders. There will be a wood stove for the passing riders to feed. There will likely be rented port-a-potties outside the same as we had at the old clubhouse. The warming shack insurance will be paid from permit dollars.

 

The old clubhouse was kept locked whenever a member was not present. The club made an effort to have it open every weekend the trails were open. The club also used the clubhouse to store equipment and other items necessitatingredients it being locked. The clubhouse was built and maintained thru the scrounging efforts of the membership. The club was given permission from the OFSC to pay the insurance from permit dollars a number of years ago. I don't know if this is still acceptable . 

 

I don't know if the difference is defined whether the facility is open to the general public 24/7 or kept closed unless opened by the membership . 

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28 minutes ago, soupkids said:

I do believe (probably wrong)

Snowmobile clubhouse (different then a groomer shack) would be where you club would have its meetings possibly with a kitchen and or bar.

This to my understanding would have the be fundraising funded.

Warming Shack Just as it says small trail side warm up shelter, my guess permit dollars.

 

 

I'm with you on this one. A clubhouse being a socializing place for the club members should be funded by fund raising. It doesn't benefit the trails or the OFSC permit buyers in general, just the members of that specific club. A warm up shack or groomer building is different. They both benefit the trails and all of the OFSC permit buyers. The warm up shack is available to everyone that rides the trails and the groomer building provides for secure storage of the groomer, out of the elements, prolonging its' life, providing a place to work on the groomer and store the signage, tools etc. All of those benefit the trails and all riders.

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26 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

 

I'm with you on this one. A clubhouse being a socializing place for the club members should be funded by fund raising. It doesn't benefit the trails or the OFSC permit buyers in general, just the members of that specific club. A warm up shack or groomer building is different. They both benefit the trails and all of the OFSC permit buyers. The warm up shack is available to everyone that rides the trails and the groomer building provides for secure storage of the groomer, out of the elements, prolonging its' life, providing a place to work on the groomer and store the signage, tools etc. All of those benefit the trails and all riders.

I believe clubs with clubhouses (which all riders can normally use when open) typically have more members and volunteers and more easily bring new volunteers IMHO . More volunteers to do trail work do benefit the trails now and new volunteers will be there to keep the trails going in the future. If a club is willing to take on the responsibility of operating a clubhouse and can't swing it completely with fundraising, I'd sooner see some funding provided to cover insurance and fixed costs rather than have the clubhouse disappear.

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OK. When you look at the monies supplied to the districts from the OFSC (30 % of permit revenue) where do you fit this in on a priority when you have grooming, trail building and maintaining, signs and stakes, landowner appreciation, groomer storage, an infrastructure reserve pot, a groomer replacement pot.

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A club house in many ways can be seen as a luxury when set up as JUST a social space. We trailered to an area we hadn't ridden before. Lots of fresh snow and we pulled into a parking lot that had been cleared that had a sign on the building xyz snowmobile club with a half dozen trucks parked there. Went to the locked door to check if it was okay to park there. Knocked and a guy came to the door. We could see a number of round tables and chairs a kitchen and a bunch of guys playing cards and drinking. We asked if it was okay to leave the truck and trailer there and did they have a washroom we could use since it looked like the place would have one considering the kitchen and sinks you could clearly see. 

 

We we were told sorry, use the nearby unploughed public parking lot and the public washroom there which was locked when we tried it.

 

i wouldn't support using permit money for a private hangout used as an exclusive social club.it would have been much nicer parking in the plowed lot and getting suited up indoors rather than the 10" of snow.

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02, that club should have been reported to the district and OFSC as a major complaint.  We all talk about the Old Boys club, how some don't think it exists, well here you go with a prime example of it.  Here's guys taking that clubhouse and using it for their own personal amusement.  Even if the kitchen isn't operating, there's no good excuse not to let you in to at least suit up and take a leak before hitting the trails.

 

I'd have had a field day making examples of these arses, via social media, or otherwise ......

 

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2 hours ago, Faceman said:

OK. When you look at the monies supplied to the districts from the OFSC (30 % of permit revenue) where do you fit this in on a priority when you have grooming, trail building and maintaining, signs and stakes, landowner appreciation, groomer storage, an infrastructure reserve pot, a groomer replacement pot.

Aren't the equalizations payments for grooming and trail expenses ? Also,  we shouldn't forget about administration expenses for the District, would that need to come out of the 30% ?

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2 hours ago, volunteer2 said:

Aren't the equalizations payments for grooming and trail expenses ? Also,  we shouldn't forget about administration expenses for the District, would that need to come out of the 30% ?

Correct.

Ok, if funding is needed for "clubhouses" and the funds are not readily available at the District level, should clubs maybe seek outside funding to support their good efforts, ie Tourism Ontario, local Chambers of Commence, Regional and County Tourism.

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21 minutes ago, Faceman said:

Correct.

Ok, if funding is needed for "clubhouses" and the funds are not readily available at the District level, should clubs maybe seek outside funding to support their good efforts, ie Tourism Ontario, local Chambers of Commence, Regional and County Tourism.

 

short answer.... yes

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7 hours ago, Denis007 said:

02, that club should have been reported to the district and OFSC as a major complaint.  We all talk about the Old Boys club, how some don't think it exists, well here you go with a prime example of it.  Here's guys taking that clubhouse and using it for their own personal amusement.  Even if the kitchen isn't operating, there's no good excuse not to let you in to at least suit up and take a leak before hitting the trails.

 

I'd have had a field day making examples of these arses, via social media, or otherwise ......

 

I agree completely with what Denis is saying. That being said, please don't paint all snowmobile clubhouses with the same brush. 

There are some great clubhouses out there. Moonbeam is a good example. 2 years ago we stopped out front of it on a Thursday, knowing it was closed. While the guys were having a smoke, an older couple came along in a car. They got out and started talking with us. Really nice couple and they were bringing groceries for the weekend. They invited us in to warm up even though it was closed. I can't remember the gentleman's name but I believe he has since passed away.

If that clubhouse was struggling to pay the clubhouse insurance or another legitimate expense, knowing that they do fundraising to help pay the costs, I would hope that the OFSC would see fit to somehow help cover some of the costs rather than see another clubhouse disappear.

Just my opinion.

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Moonbeam clubhouse should stand as a example of how a clubhouse should be.. just my opinion. That clubhouse volunteers are great, and it's ran very well Imo..PLC the clubhouse volunteer who passed away was Gaston Dufour.. great guy indeed.. I am glad to have met him on several occasions and enjoyed his stories over the years..

 

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4 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

I agree completely with what Denis is saying. That being said, please don't paint all snowmobile clubhouses with the same brush.  There are some great clubhouses out there. Moonbeam is a good example.

 

You're absolutely right.  I wouldn't dream of it, just refering to the one mentioned previously.  And you're also right, Moonbeam is a shining example of what a clubhouse should be, and how it should be run.  These are the best people I've seen involved in snowmobiling, BAR NONE.

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1 hour ago, IQ TURBO said:

Moonbeam clubhouse should stand as a example of how a clubhouse should be.. just my opinion. That clubhouse volunteers are great, and it's ran very well Imo..PLC the clubhouse volunteer who passed away was Gaston Dufour.. great guy indeed.. I am glad to have met him on several occasions and enjoyed his stories over the years..

 

Agreed. I am sure there are many scenarios that are shining examples of what a club house should be and how they should be operated 

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Absolutely. But the question remains..can clubs sustain clubhouse operations entirely on volunteer efforts with fundraising dollars. And, if they can not, due to crappy winters or whatever, how do they pay the bills? Or do they close their doors? Warming shacks can, for the main part function with the goodwill of the landowner and firewood for heat but structured buildings with taxes, maintenance, hydro! Are they turning into a thing of the past? And where do you draw line when you have 10 clubhouse within 50 miles? As was mentioned, clubhouses denote pride and do encourage more volunteers ( to a point) but are they the actual "glue" to the club.

I can tell you, our "warming shack" will be self sustaining but it is already showing increased volunteer interest since we started the project.

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How do they pay their bills ?

 

Stop into Moonbeam clubhouse on a Sunday morning when folks go for brunch after church. Standing room only most times.  They can make their seasons payments from the Sundays alone, I'll bet my OC hat on it ......

 

Years ago every club had a clubhouse, I know of 2 still standing up here other than Moonbeam, and both closed for years now. All the other ones have been taken down.

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I understand the Mattice Clubhouse is sold, or is this old news?

 

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3 hours ago, Faceman said:

I understand the Mattice Clubhouse is sold, or is this old news?

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, it's still owned by the town of Mattice.  I heard of someone offering big dollars for it a few years ago but the town refused to sell.  The groomer garage sits on that lot, has river access, is near the town dump.  I don't see them selling it, even if it doesn't open.

 

If I got real rich I know I'd buy the place ... open it back up and the people would come ... no restaurant in Mattice now so you'd do good there.

 

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Imo i think any fund money  should be spent on groomer equipment,repairs,bridges and bridge repairs. Excavating areas of the trails that need to be improved.Filling in low areas that get washed out on trails like the other year on the Seguin for example.Purchasing signs that need to be replaced or that are stolen. Club houses and warming shacks should be funded by money that the club raises through draws,donations,poker runs etc. If you need to warm up a bit try this novel idea stop at one of the local restaurants,coffee shops and support them. I'am sure they could use the business throughout the winter. A cup of coffee at a local eatery doesn't cost that much compared to buying land for a club house,warming shack plus the costs of building it ,maintaining it,cost of hydro which everyone is complaining about property taxes ,repairing it due to drunks knocking holes in the wall and liability of people drinking in these shacks and driving on the trail. So i would just rather stop at a local place pay a couple of bucks for a coffee and have the funded money put towards building and maintaining the trails.Just my 02 cents...

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I have seen a couple that have been essentially trashed inside by idiots without any respect for the effort it took to put the warm up building there. I recall seeing one where there was a door on it on our way out and on our way back later that day the door had been removed. I guess someone needed a door real bad.

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Our neighborhood shack,  The guy who has it on his property says if you look after the shack, usually the shack looks after itself.  IE  he goes every morning to stoke the fire, sweep the floor, take out the garbage and pu any empties.  His mother was out this week repainting the cement floor.  It takes 5 mins a day, but is always warm, and everyone respects it when they are there.  If you show up at a hut in Feb that still has leaves on the floor in the corners, and the stove hasn't been lit in weeks, nobody seems to care about it and it shows.

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Snowchopper,  I agree for the most part with your post above.  However I would like to point out that some clubhouses & groomer garages started their lives as something else and evolved into what they are.  yes there are new buildings, but there are also some recycled setups on donated land.

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