revrnd Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 From my Facebook page: Does the township have it in for snowmobilers? Today a township pickup was plowing the little bit of snow off the road (down to dirt) where E107 crosses McKay Lake Road. One house past this point. Tucker Road is dirt the full length. Three houses on this road, O'Brien Road is down to dirt where the Chandos trail follows along. One house on this road. We traveled the 12 kilometer length of the McCoy Bay Road and yes it's a private road, but there isn't a speck of sand on it and probably sees more vehicle traffic that the other roads involved. In the 80s you could snowmobile the entire length of the Clydesdale and Old Apsley roads. If they were sanded, it was only on the hills. But then again "liability" was an unheard of term back in those days. If a person can navigate the McCoy Bay Road without it being plowed down to gravel, the average driver should be able to navigate any of the other aforementioned roads with sanding in the appropriate sections. End of rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pembroke Stratos 285XL Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 An unfortunate fact of life nowadays. Municipalities for the most part like to say they support snowmobiling and the tourist dollars it brings in, but the reality is that they aren't much help to the clubs and associations, as snowmobiling is a motorized activity, and we know how Ontario loves motorized sports. They'd rather support butterfly collectors, paddlers and hikers. Some councilors like to think they are in southern Ontario and therefore need a bylaw for every possible situation that might occur. Roads departments seldom leave any snow, they have to scrape the shoulders down to the gravel. Here in Petawawa, they are making life difficult for the TOP A trail that runs through town...some people in municipal politics like to think they are emissions experts as well, making assumptions about snowmobilers and their impact on the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sledder Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Good rant, so true as I was thinking the same thing the last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledzz Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Especially that knuckle dragging Roads Superintendent in Addington Highlands, he absolutely hates snowmobiles and takes the road down to the bare asphalt or gravel and leaves no margin for sleds even though snowmobiles bring a lot of revenue to his township which helps pay his salary. A real dickhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Good rant, so true as I was thinking the same thing the last few weeks. It's not just in the spring, it's all winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozskagg Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I believe this is more prevalent this year due to the lack of snow earlier in the season. Municipalities and Townships need to use up that snow clearing budget and max it out otherwise they take a hit on budgets the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I believe this is more prevalent this year due to the lack of snow earlier in the season. Municipalities and Townships need to use up that snow clearing budget and max it out otherwise they take a hit on budgets the following year. that's horrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sledder Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It's not just in the spring, it's all winter. Totally true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I guess what burns my butt the most is that when you see the way the municipalities in northern Ontario leave snow on the roads & streets. If they can do it, why can't the same thing be done down here? Everyone, his uncle & their dog has an SUV & you know those things are unbeatable in the snow (in you believe the TV ads) then why do they have plow off the snow? Do the northern townships leave snow/don't salt & sand due to they want to be nice to sledders or is it a cost savings measure? The mindset around here seems to be, everyone has a cottage worth 6 figures, so they can afford another tax increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aar0n Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I guess what burns my butt the most is that when you see the way the municipalities in northern Ontario leave snow on the roads & streets. If they can do it, why can't the same thing been done down here? Everyone, his uncle & their dog has an SUV & you know those things are unbeatable in the snow (in you believe the TV ads) then why do they have plow off the snow? Do the northern townships leave snow/don't salt & sand due to they want to be nice to sledders or is it a cost savings measure? The mindset around here seems to be, everyone has a cottage worth 6 figures, so they can afford another tax increase. around lob they blow the roads but leave a decent 3' wide section on both sides. They also use very little amounts of sand, making road running very doable. I don't know why there is a such a difference when Apsley is only 1hour south.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The bridge over the 400 hwy at the south end of Coldwater is notorious for no snow. They will plow the road and then just to make sure there isn't anything left they bring in a front end loader to scoop up the snow at the sides and then dump it off the bridge into the space between the north and south bound 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Voyant Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 {Kapuskasing} As I am reading this last post....the grader goes by my house. Went for a ride around town today....graders and loaders everywhere. Most of the roads around town are down to sand. I can't speak for the concession roads. Gas stations are 90% bare. It's spring. Having said that....the trails are still awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott S Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Here in the south the roads crews go out on clear days and push every bit of snow along the side of the roads into the ditch as far as they can so there is nothing but dirt along the roads all winter. They weave out to the road to go around road signs and then right back to the edge of the shoulder with the blade out along ways into the ditch from there. Pull over to far driving and you will flip your car into the ditch as they plow literally far into the ditches. Makes it tough riding on top of all the big ice chunks and snow boulders in the ditches. I cannot see why they cannot plow the shoulder bare and at least leave the ditch alone. I noticed coming home Sunday that the plow crews managed to strip off the new gravel shoulders that we paid Walmsley Bros. to have installed last year and place the tons of new gravel directly into the grass and ditch. I was riding the ditch and it looked like a gravel road. This was done when the shoulders were already bare of any snow or ice. They sent a team of circus performers out to burn some time and fuel and make sure the summer crew had lots of work to do. Then they will have friends of the township come along with excavators in the summer and pay to clean out the ditches and take the gravel from there to the municipal dump and use it for landfill. What is left in the ditch gets tossed further when the municipal mowers run the ditch cutting grass. I do not see how anyone in their right mind could think that this could be a good idea! The ditch in front of our place has as much gravel as the shoulders used to lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Wild Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A few years ago the township plow pushed up a huge pile of snow on the trail at a turn a round on a low volume dead end street. There was no need to do it like that or leave it like that. I think a lot of it all boils down to the fact that if the driver of the plow is not a snowmobiler, he'll show everyone who is boss. I complained to the township CAO as it would be very hard for many sledders to get over the pile but he just said the plow to MTO standards. RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I forgot to mention that the three roads in question are dead ends with no thru traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 A few years ago the township plow pushed up a huge pile of snow on the trail at a turn a round on a low volume dead end street. There was no need to do it like that or leave it like that. I think a lot of it all boils down to the fact that if the driver of the plow is not a snowmobiler, he'll show everyone who is boss. I complained to the township CAO as it would be very hard for many sledders to get over the pile but he just said the plow to MTO standards. RW I think that is closer to the truth that folks would want to think. I heard the same thing said about 1 of the plow operators in a neighbouring township. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectordevil Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 One plow driver in our area one of our trails runs about 2km along a dead end dirt rd and one of the plow operators puts the wing plow down and. Shears the trail in half leaving a straight edge 3ft drop to the road and purposely leaves massive ice chunks and snow on the trail now making barely wide enough for one sled !!! Asshat he is for sure !!!!! And like I said it's a dead end road with a few houses on it and scrapes it right too the bone !!!!! Pisses us off big time and I find I see more plowed rds every year and it seems they do more and more to discourage trails along the road all the time !!!!! Grrrrrrrrr (( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One thing that I have noticed is that the sleds sure can erase snow our whole shop lane is cleared by the same machine in the same way same amount of passes yet where the trail runs the snow goes first I think it is the sled traffic that wears it down early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One plow driver in our area one of our trails runs about 2km along a dead end dirt rd and one of the plow operators puts the wing plow down and. Shears the trail in half leaving a straight edge 3ft drop to the road and purposely leaves massive ice chunks and snow on the trail now making barely wide enough for one sled !!! Asshat he is for sure !!!!! And like I said it's a dead end road with a few houses on it and scrapes it right too the bone !!!!! Pisses us off big time and I find I see more plowed rds every year and it seems they do more and more to discourage trails along the road all the time !!!!! Grrrrrrrrr (( We have been pissed off too with the ignorant plow operators over the years. When they do this crap ( in bold) it should be documented and the municipality should be put on notice THEY will be involved in a lawsuit if a snowmobiler gets hurt or has any damage to their machine. This whole concept of working with your municipality for everyone's benefit is a bit of a delusion. Good Rant and long overdo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftbuster Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Well I'll start off with I am a Plow operator, groomer operator and snowmobiler. And yes I do Plow for a municipality and gravel roads with trails crossing. So I do see all points of view. In saying that, while plowing I will Plow with wing down gravel roads and yes I will push it back as far as I can off the shoulder. This helps to prevent drifting from blowing back onto the road as quick. And yes there are minimum maintenance standards which in waterloo region is approx 4" for most roads. I won't get into the classifications of roads as it will make this post far to long. If the plows allows that to accumulate we would not get it off the road as it would be rolled down and unplowable causing more salt use. I won't go far into that if people have questions about what Plow drivers do and why please message me I'll answer what I can. As for grooming I see groomers pulling up to road crossings with a half full or more drag full of snow and feathering it onto the shoulder which is nice for sleds but not plows. Our wings have no down pressure only the weight of the wing and that hump causes them to bounce. When grooming I start feathering a ways back so I am only panning the edge down at the shoulder with no snow in my drag. Then cut into the ridge as I'm entering on the other side and have some show to start on the other side. That is just something I found works for me knowing both sides of this battle. It will never be perfect but remember that on roads the road allowance in considered property face to property face and in most cases that is further back then where the shoulder ends. I understand that this is a snowmobile forum but the Plow operators are out on the roads to keep people safe. Next time your out driving stuck behind a Plow doing its job give the same wave you would your favourite groomer operator because it might just be the same person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 You are probably correct in some places. However, we have had experiences where the trail runs down the ditch and is groomed, only to be destroyed by the plow. The trail has been rerouted off the road this year, and the ditch is no longer plowed to dirt. We also have a municipality that has given us permission to use the road allowance for the trail, but the plow will constantly destroy the trail, often minutes after the groomer has gone by. In one instance, the grader operator was sent back after a complaint to re establish the area for the trail. There are two sides to this, but there are also operators who seem to take great pleasure in ripping up the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftbuster Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I can't disagree with that as I know there are Azzhats in anything you do. As long at they remain the minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I suspect in most cases it is not a disgruntled plow operator, he is in most cases just doing his job . Think of the liability factors in the sping of snow melting from the shoulders of the roads during the day across the pavement , but then as night temperature drop occurs that water freezes as black ice on the road. Simple solution plow the shoulders when plow operators have spare time. In my area even the ditches are attempted to be pushed back as far as possible with a plow wing so that the ditches can handle the spring runoff. Or else rural property owners will be dealing with flooded drives or fields., and cost taxpayers even more to callout backhoes or excavators to digout many kilometers of ditches, Simple solution plow the ditches with wings when plow operators have spare time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy1010 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Kudos to the plow operators in Severn township are in order then. The C-trail along Whites Falls road/Joe King's rd still has a foot and a half of base (95% of the stretch) wide enough for 2 sled to pass slowly. Similar exists on the C-trail over the 400 a little farther north giving great access to some good riding and Georgian Bay for our area. Lets hope the groomer gets out during today's cold temps to smooth it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 I can see the thawing & freezing cycles in the spring, but my complaint is thru the entire winter. Like I said in the quote, it was SOP to leave snow on the roads & salt/sand where it was needed in the 80s. My mother is from Apsley & we've been sledding here since '70 so I know how the road maintenance has been carried out & who is involved. I'll leave it @ that before I get into trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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