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Shelburne to Dundalk trails suck !


gpshddan

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I understand that I may (probably) get backlash but like arseholes we all have our own opinion. I have been sledding for the better part 30yrs and have purchased trail permits every year since the mid 80's and some years up to 4 when the kids were still at home. I have always purchased where I ride and have taken the good with the bad, lack of snow, bad trails after a busy weekend, closed section due to unrespectful riders, a bridge out, broken groomer, etc. I do feel however that some clubs could and should do more, in this case " Dufferin Drift Busters" I ride this area a majority of the time and always venture into different clubs as far over as Kincardine in the west and Coldwater in the east. I can honestly say that DDB is the worst, when there is lack of snow it is said we can't groom, not enough snow. That I get, but guess what, now we got lots. I have asked many people within the area and have been monitoring since I live close to the trail and drive by them every day. In this area they groom twice a week, usually Monday and Thursday, in my opinion and sure many others that is not enough for an area as busy as this. I will not say that I pay for permits and the trails should always be table top, but the entire premis of the OFSC is to ride "well groomed" trails across the entire province to most communities. In closing I will say this, I have been buying my permits for this club for the last 9 years but this year will be the last, cause their trails, suck !

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Perhaps they are short of groomer operators. Rough trails do take the fun out of it.

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Somebody has to ask, so I will,  Do you volunteer with the club also, or just buy your permit and expect the work to be done when you are ready to ride? 

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I also would like to comment. The amount of grooming maybe established through budgets established by the Districts. We don't have a bottomless pit of money and this maybe the sign of the times.

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your title suggests the rail line (and/or neighboring trails?) - the club grooms alot more than that - are they all bad? I.E. could you be more specific?

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I Unfortunately do not volunteer, pay for my permit like most. But as mentioned I don't expect table top all the time. I do however feel they should be groomed more than they are, I am not only referring to the rail bed as mentioned all of their trails from the rail bed, granny trail up to Feversham, etc. Compared to neighboring clubs other than Otangeville are in my opinion the worst around.

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Perhaps you would like to volunteer to do an overnight grooming run for the club while virtually everyone else is in bed asleep. I am sure they would appreciate your help.

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While I fully believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, I wish more would have an informed opinion before they type it. There could be a lot of reasons why a particular system is apparently "substandard. Negative posts on public forums hopefully promote discussion of a positive nature but not always the case. These posts can also strike and dig deep into the already frazzled nerves of the volunteers. I always suggest persons contact (a) the district first to ascertain club and ( B) the particular club. District has paid admin staff who might be able to answer your issue. BTW Budget concerns grow while volunteer numbers dwindle

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Boy, I cringe when I see titles like this. This board consists of club Presidents VP's Directors Trail Patrollers Groomer Operators etc etc. All people who give plenty of time for free. Reaching out to the club is far more productive than proclaiming on a public forum their volunteer efforts "suck" I appreciate when a permit buyer reaches out to our club with an issue and always respond. Maybe, if your local, you could lend a hand.

LIVIN'

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Boy, I cringe when I see titles like this. This board consists of club Presidents VP's Directors Trail Patrollers Groomer Operators etc etc. All people who give plenty of time for free. Reaching out to the club is far more productive than proclaiming on a public forum their volunteer efforts "suck" I appreciate when a permit buyer reaches out to our club with an issue and always respond. Maybe, if your local, you could lend a hand.

LIVIN'

 

Yup...nothing worse than someone saying you need to give more of your free time up so that they can have their fun when they don't give up any of theirs. Hey Mr./Ms. Volunteer you're not working hard enough or long enough... Get with the program.

 

I had someone ask me about a week ago when I was talking to them about volunteering "what's in it for you and what would be in it for me?" Easy answer in some ways... giving to the community for a sport I love, meeting and working with great people... things like that does it for me but he was looking for something more tangible.... he thought free trail pass, things like that.

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was going to post this as a seperate thread but if may fit here....will not say exact area I was in but it was roughly a 160 k trip one way from home....since I drive a much older sled I checked ofsc trail status and saw most areas were green ...planned my route accordingly since I am still looking for the suspension that they forgot to put in the sled when it was new and also it was going to be a very cloudy and hazy day so it would be hard to see the tral or bumps very clearly... ....so planned my route on 90% green trails and away I went....after say 40 k the trails became really really rough...huge diffrence from one club area to another...finally ended up on the side of a trail with a broken shock support and my day of riding done...my fault for having a big ass and I guess driving to fast for trail conditions...I have sled for years and I thought that yellow trails meant all the bumps, not premo conditions, etc....did not expect those conditions at all...would never of gone...my question  or thought is a majority of those trails in my opinion should of been yellow not green...I know this topic has been beat to death on here.....but to me green means really nice shape not just that we have lots of snow....

 

ps- not bashing clubs, groomers, etc.....more bashing the trail status process...Cheers

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was going to post this as a seperate thread but if may fit here....will not say exact area I was in but it was roughly a 160 k trip one way from home....since I drive a much older sled I checked ofsc trail status and saw most areas were green ...planned my route accordingly since I am still looking for the suspension that they forgot to put in the sled when it was new and also it was going to be a very cloudy and hazy day so it would be hard to see the tral or bumps very clearly... ....so planned my route on 90% green trails and away I went....after say 40 k the trails became really really rough...huge diffrence from one club area to another...finally ended up on the side of a trail with a broken shock support and my day of riding done...my fault for having a big ass and I guess driving to fast for trail conditions...I have sled for years and I thought that yellow trails meant all the bumps, not premo conditions, etc....did not expect those conditions at all...would never of gone...my question  or thought is a majority of those trails in my opinion should of been yellow not green...I know this topic has been beat to death on here.....but to me green means really nice shape not just that we have lots of snow....

 

ps- not bashing clubs, groomers, etc.....more bashing the trail status process...Cheers

 

Diceman.... first I like your sense of humour.... I too wonder from time to time about the yellow green scenario.... one persons yellow is at times another persons green and vice versa, It is subject to personal opiniion and their assessment to some extent. I have been on some yellow that couldn't have possibly been better that should have been green and the other way around. I am always careful to take into consideration the time of day and the amount of traffic the trail has seen that day however. It may have been a green in the morning and a yellow by mid afternoon.

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Earlier post regarding Mitchell trails questioning grooming or groomer. Trails will change drastically from Fri to Sat to Sun due to volume. By Sunday most are done and require a tune up and that was the case in Mitchell. Question is where do you start grooming with your one groomer. Green does not reflect bump status of trail. And as I indicated earlier its about budget. In D9 clubs groom the equivalent of 2 complete passes of their system per week. That is what is budgeted to survive a 8-9 week season. Groom more now, groom less later? Hard to forecast how long a season is going to last

Love you choice of sleds BTW. My back and shoulders hurt just thinking about a long bumpy ride!

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I haven't been out much this year (ride drift buster trails mostly) but I find the trails are equal to the surrounding clubs. If the rail bed is rough in Shelburne, its usually rough through Dundalk and markdale ect. The granny is a tough trail to groom in my opinion and so I never expect it to be table top. I'm happy with the job they do and will continue to support the club.

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I Unfortunately do not volunteer, pay for my permit like most. But as mentioned I don't expect table top all the time. I do however feel they should be groomed more than they are, I am not only referring to the rail bed as mentioned all of their trails from the rail bed, granny trail up to Feversham, etc. Compared to neighboring clubs other than Otangeville are in my opinion the worst around.

  So here is a very real fallout from negative comments. An overworked tired volunteer reads a post like that after giving a huge amount of his/her free time trying to help and quits another person thinking of volunteering reads that post and decides they do not need the hassle. That happens enough and another club folds like Chapleau did. Now there is less trails and not only have you not helped your situation but you actually made it worse. Sometimes it is hard to foresee the rults of your actions. 

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Yes I also hate to see especially negative comments for the exact dangers WildBill raises.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think everything is perfect all the time, and that there is always room for improvement, but it seems as if the thread was intentionally set up to inflame, and I can definitely see that pissing off hard working volunteers.  

 

Anyway, for what it's worth THANK YOU! to all the volunteers and groomers and clubs, as for as much as there may be difference club to club, South vs. North vs east vs west, all in all it's a pretty amazing system we have. That would NOT exist without the countless volunteers, and obviously the landowners themselves

 

 

I am only in my second year of sled ownership, and just joined local club, and have been happy to volunteer to help where I can, and have enjoyed helping out.  And for just the little window I've seen, my contribution is minuscule compared to what I have seen from other club members, so I especially empathize with the extra work that goes on, especially when season hits full swing, and people would really like to be riding, but still are putting in time to groom and fix things, and keep landowners happy, let alone that whole work and responsibility many of us have.. ;)

 

So once again, thanks to all, let's keep this towards improvement, and let's hope for a long and safe season for all!

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You are absolutely right 'Livin'

 

At this time of year all Club Executive, Volunteers and especially Groomer Operators are near the end of the rope physically and emotionally for various reasons and public criticism really is a dagger in their heart.

 

There are too many on the verge of throwing in the towel and it doesn't take much to push some over the proverbial edge and they are done.

 

There are usually several reasons why such as mechanical breakdowns, illness, only one or two Operators, work responsibilities, etc.

 

Our 3 NBSC are out there going strong but the snow is so dry and fluffy it won't compact and our Operators report that 2 or 3 riders tear up the trail after 8 hours of work, gets discouraging when many riders don't appreciate that.

 

That is one reason I post the SPOT GPS tracks so our Trail Permit Buyers and others know we are trying our best but perfect is really hard to achieve with these winter conditions.

 

By the way, more accurate Trail Status is a complete impossibility for numerous and obvious reasons, i.e. paragraph 5 above.

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Someone... I believe here mentioned a groomer operator being given a Timmy's gift card by a sledder on the trail. I like the idea. How about everyone that enjoys the benefits of the labour by the volunteers go out and buy a Timmy's gift card. Doesn't have to be much... even just enough for a coffee and a muffin. Or even get a couple. It's not going to break the bank I don't think. The next time you see a volunteer working on the trail, stop, give them the card and say thank you.

 

Little things like that can go a heck of a long way to keeping volunteers volunteering. I think I will stop at Timmy's before the weekend and carry a few with me especially since I will be riding a couple of other clubs trails this weekend.

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I see both sides.  I applaud the volunteers for their hard work and appreciate all of their effort.  Does that mean one can't be critical of trails when they suck?  Does that mean some clubs might not be taking advantage of the system and not performing at a top level?  I think if the trails suck, we should be able to say the trails suck.  I've ridden the Chapleau trails each of the past 10 years, their trails have never sucked.  I have ridden some other trails that have greater resources, I won't mention any areas fearing I might offend some of those responsible for those trails that sucked, and trust me; they sucked!

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was going to post this as a seperate thread but if may fit here....will not say exact area I was in but it was roughly a 160 k trip one way from home....since I drive a much older sled I checked ofsc trail status and saw most areas were green ...planned my route accordingly since I am still looking for the suspension that they forgot to put in the sled when it was new and also it was going to be a very cloudy and hazy day so it would be hard to see the tral or bumps very clearly... ....so planned my route on 90% green trails and away I went....after say 40 k the trails became really really rough...huge diffrence from one club area to another...finally ended up on the side of a trail with a broken shock support and my day of riding done...my fault for having a big ass and I guess driving to fast for trail conditions...I have sled for years and I thought that yellow trails meant all the bumps, not premo conditions, etc....did not expect those conditions at all...would never of gone...my question  or thought is a majority of those trails in my opinion should of been yellow not green...I know this topic has been beat to death on here.....but to me green means really nice shape not just that we have lots of snow....

 

ps- not bashing clubs, groomers, etc.....more bashing the trail status process...Cheers

 

Trails can be primo and green when the trail update is done on Thursday and be beat to s--t by Saturday morning especially this season with snow that hasn't been packing and big volumes of traffic.

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Someone... I believe here mentioned a groomer operator being given a Timmy's gift card by a sledder on the trail. I like the idea. How about everyone that enjoys the benefits of the labour by the volunteers go out and buy a Timmy's gift card. Doesn't have to be much... even just enough for a coffee and a muffin. Or even get a couple. It's not going to break the bank I don't think. The next time you see a volunteer working on the trail, stop, give them the card and say thank you.

 

Little things like that can go a heck of a long way to keeping volunteers volunteering. I think I will stop at Timmy's before the weekend and carry a few with me especially since I will be riding a couple of other clubs trails this weekend.

Great idea!! Will be buying some cards.  I truly appreciate the volunteers that make my sledding possible.  I do believe that paying the permit fee does give people the right to comment on how the various clubs perform, without the comments back that they should volunteer instead of complaining.  Comments do not need to be insulting however.  Case in point..many people complained loud and long about Haliburton for years.  It seems to be different now.  The trails are better and more consistent.  Was this because of an injection of more money, better leadership, more volunteers? Don't know, but it seems the complaints were heard.

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gpshddan, just to add to what others have covered. I understand the frustration and I think the OFSC and the clubs could do a better job of communicating the issues, the science behind grooming, the funding model, what volunteers really have to deal with, the interactive map colors (it has nothing to do with how rough the trail is, etc). It will help some understand and others will just continue to bitch. Constructive feedback is ok and more volunteers can always help clubs.  I live near Dundalk and this year due to the snow around Markdale, Feversham, etc there has been way more sled traffic then normal. As Faceman said, my home club (Mount Forest) is in D9 and we are adhering to a 2 pass per week schedule. Also as folks point out... groomers break down, groomer ops get called to work, have family issues, etc. I sometimes ride the shelburne trails and find them for the most part are ok, this year has been tough everywhere with low and poor snow conditions combined with lots of wind. Just to show you how bad the base is for most trails...I was doing STOP patrol on the 'C' trail near Elmvale on Sunday and watched the groomer go by and about 15 sleds later (20mins) a group pulled up and asked if the groomers were out. On that trail on a busy Saturday we will see 500+ sleds.

My suggestion get out early in the day, beat the traffic and thank the volunteers for everything they do. They want good trails also and take pride in trying to do a good job, why else would they do it.... its not for the money :-)

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gpshddan, just to add to what others have covered. I understand the frustration and I think the OFSC and the clubs could do a better job of communicating the issues, the science behind grooming, the funding model, what volunteers really have to deal with, the interactive map colors (it has nothing to do with how rough the trail is, etc). It will help some understand and others will just continue to bitch. Constructive feedback is ok and more volunteers can always help clubs.  I live near Dundalk and this year due to the snow around Markdale, Feversham, etc there has been way more sled traffic then normal. As Faceman said, my home club (Mount Forest) is in D9 and we are adhering to a 2 pass per week schedule. Also as folks point out... groomers break down, groomer ops get called to work, have family issues, etc. I sometimes ride the shelburne trails and find them for the most part are ok, this year has been tough everywhere with low and poor snow conditions combined with lots of wind. Just to show you how bad the base is for most trails...I was doing STOP patrol on the 'C' trail near Elmvale on Sunday and watched the groomer go by and about 15 sleds later (20mins) a group pulled up and asked if the groomers were out. On that trail on a busy Saturday we will see 500+ sleds.

My suggestion get out early in the day, beat the traffic and thank the volunteers for everything they do. They want good trails also and take pride in trying to do a good job, why else would they do it.... its not for the money :-)

 

No kidding volunteering costs money 

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