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bbakernbay

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got stopped Wednesday morning on the d trail and etwell rd west of Huntsville. he looked at val tag and trail permit and waved me thru, 10 seconds at the most and I was also doing 90/100 kmh at the time. 

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Is it just my perception, or is there an increased OPP presence on the trails this year? 

 

If there is an increased presence, is it related to the review of the STOP program?

 

I know that a number of applications to the STOP program, even involving participants who completed their training, "cannot move forward due to an administrative issue with  lapsed security clearance."  These were applications from 18 months ago.

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Is it just my perception, or is there an increased OPP presence on the trails this year? 

 

If there is an increased presence, is it related to the review of the STOP program?

 

I know that a number of applications to the STOP program, even involving participants who completed their training, "cannot move forward due to an administrative issue with  lapsed security clearance."  These were applications from 18 months ago.

Sledjunk.... I don't know if there is a increased OPP presence on the trails this year, but its not related to the STOP program. STOP trainees can still go out with their OPP co-coordinators or other sworn in STOP officers. IMO The delay in the STOP trainees being sworn in is really 2 issues. 1 the change in all the OFSC committees slowed down decisions and admin tasks around STOP and 2. a OPP administrative delay in processing the STOP trainees applications, then caused the security clearances to lapse before they could be sworn in. Can't be sworn in without a valid security clearance. SNAFU. I understand the OFSC and OPP are meeting next week to see if they can speed things up.

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Thanks for the info.

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Thats right WB. Being stopped and held up for checking all paperwork is not appreciated here either. A simple slow down to check for permit and lic. sticker should suffice.

We have been stopped in Orillia while on a weeks trip,yes all had bags on and a favorite is stopping families on a Sunday afternoon for no reason.

Meanwhile the idiots are screaming through the bush trails . These guys are hard to catch when your hiding behind a tree at the edge of a road.

Well said.  We were stopped by OPP near Bracebridge last Wednesday.  This thread had me prepared to challenge if asked for paperwork.  First guy was waved over and I simply slowly moved forward to continue since he had not specifically waved me over.  He jumped back and waved me over too.  I quickly asked what I had done wrong and he said "nothing".  So I pointed to my permit and lic validation and said "may I please continue then"?  He said "no, I need to see your paperwork".  I said I objected to the request and I asked him why since we do not live in a country where police can arbitrarily ask for ID.  I just wanted him to explain to me if what he was doing was legal or not.  I did not get a yes or no answer, but he explained they do it to look for stolen sleds.  I asked if they regularly set up roadblocks on highways to look for stolen cars.  He said "no".  I asked then why do it to us? To which he responded with the stolen sled thing again.  I asked if they have ever recovered stolen sleds doing this and he said no.  At this point, I think I was embarrassing my riding partners so I let it go.  After getting out my insurance and registration I started to remove my helmet to unzip my jacket to get my Dr Lic when he said..that's OK I won't ask for your Drivers Licence then, OK?

I think as Canadians we have a right to go about our business without being inconvenienced like this.  Sure, look at my permit and val tag, but don't make me undress and dig out ID etc unless I have done something unlawful. Just my opinion.  I respect the police and believe they have a place on our trail systems, but get out on Friday night on some back trails and find the drunks pissing around on the trails.  Lord knows I have seen enough of them.

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Well said.  We were stopped by OPP near Bracebridge last Wednesday.  This thread had me prepared to challenge if asked for paperwork.  First guy was waved over and I simply slowly moved forward to continue since he had not specifically waved me over.  He jumped back and waved me over too.  I quickly asked what I had done wrong and he said "nothing".  So I pointed to my permit and lic validation and said "may I please continue then"?  He said "no, I need to see your paperwork".  I said I objected to the request and I asked him why since we do not live in a country where police can arbitrarily ask for ID.  I just wanted him to explain to me if what he was doing was legal or not.  I did not get a yes or no answer, but he explained they do it to look for stolen sleds.  I asked if they regularly set up roadblocks on highways to look for stolen cars.  He said "no".  I asked then why do it to us? To which he responded with the stolen sled thing again.  I asked if they have ever recovered stolen sleds doing this and he said no.  At this point, I think I was embarrassing my riding partners so I let it go.  After getting out my insurance and registration I started to remove my helmet to unzip my jacket to get my Dr Lic when he said..that's OK I won't ask for your Drivers Licence then, OK?

I think as Canadians we have a right to go about our business without being inconvenienced like this.  Sure, look at my permit and val tag, but don't make me undress and dig out ID etc unless I have done something unlawful. Just my opinion.  I respect the police and believe they have a place on our trail systems, but get out on Friday night on some back trails and find the drunks pissing around on the trails.  Lord knows I have seen enough of them.

good post 

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Well said.  We were stopped by OPP near Bracebridge last Wednesday.  This thread had me prepared to challenge if asked for paperwork.  First guy was waved over and I simply slowly moved forward to continue since he had not specifically waved me over.  He jumped back and waved me over too.  I quickly asked what I had done wrong and he said "nothing".  So I pointed to my permit and lic validation and said "may I please continue then"?  He said "no, I need to see your paperwork".  I said I objected to the request and I asked him why since we do not live in a country where police can arbitrarily ask for ID.  I just wanted him to explain to me if what he was doing was legal or not.  I did not get a yes or no answer, but he explained they do it to look for stolen sleds.  I asked if they regularly set up roadblocks on highways to look for stolen cars.  He said "no".  I asked then why do it to us? To which he responded with the stolen sled thing again.  I asked if they have ever recovered stolen sleds doing this and he said no.  At this point, I think I was embarrassing my riding partners so I let it go.  After getting out my insurance and registration I started to remove my helmet to unzip my jacket to get my Dr Lic when he said..that's OK I won't ask for your Drivers Licence then, OK?

I think as Canadians we have a right to go about our business without being inconvenienced like this.  Sure, look at my permit and val tag, but don't make me undress and dig out ID etc unless I have done something unlawful. Just my opinion.  I respect the police and believe they have a place on our trail systems, but get out on Friday night on some back trails and find the drunks pissing around on the trails.  Lord knows I have seen enough of them.

 

Nicely done Griff.  You've got big cojones!  

 

The 'stolen sled' excuse used on you near Bracebridge is so blatantly stupid that the cop should have been embarrassed to use it.  The Insurance Bureau of Canada reports that about 420 cars a day are stolen across the country (>153,000 per year). There are so few sleds stolen that the IBC doesn't report the numbers anywhere that I could find. The best I could find was that cars, trucks and bikes account for 92% of the motor vehicles that are stolen, and sleds are lumped in with the remaining 8% that would also include ATVs, off-road bikes, sleds and boats/PWCs.

 

The cops have a role, an important role, but it shouldn't include unnecessarily detaining sledders for these 2nd level checks.  That should be reserved for those who have (or are suspected to have) violated a law. A cop has no business stopping multiple sleds and making riders wait for their turn to have their rights violated. 

 

The standard check should take 20 seconds; check for my permit, a val tag and registration numbers or "plate" and a nod to move off. Conversely, if he catches me violating a Reg, then I deserve getting the Full Monty.

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Sledjunk.... I don't know if there is a increased OPP presence on the trails this year, but its not related to the STOP program. STOP trainees can still go out with their OPP co-coordinators or other sworn in STOP officers. IMO The delay in the STOP trainees being sworn in is really 2 issues. 1 the change in all the OFSC committees slowed down decisions and admin tasks around STOP and 2. a OPP administrative delay in processing the STOP trainees applications, then caused the security clearances to lapse before they could be sworn in. Can't be sworn in without a valid security clearance. SNAFU. I understand the OFSC and OPP are meeting next week to see if they can speed things up.

Saw a STOP officer on the trail today. He looked for the TP and waived us through but we stopped and chatted, hewas alone and waiting for Subury regional to join him. I made sure to thank him for doing a great job and for volunteering his time.(ie: just looking for the val tag reg numbers and trail pass) not doing a full check of all paper work. You guys can be great ambassadors for the trail system when you do it right.

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Well said.  We were stopped by OPP near Bracebridge last Wednesday.  This thread had me prepared to challenge if asked for paperwork.  First guy was waved over and I simply slowly moved forward to continue since he had not specifically waved me over.  He jumped back and waved me over too.  I quickly asked what I had done wrong and he said "nothing".  So I pointed to my permit and lic validation and said "may I please continue then"?  He said "no, I need to see your paperwork".  I said I objected to the request and I asked him why since we do not live in a country where police can arbitrarily ask for ID.  I just wanted him to explain to me if what he was doing was legal or not.  I did not get a yes or no answer, but he explained they do it to look for stolen sleds.  I asked if they regularly set up roadblocks on highways to look for stolen cars.  He said "no".  I asked then why do it to us? To which he responded with the stolen sled thing again.  I asked if they have ever recovered stolen sleds doing this and he said no.  At this point, I think I was embarrassing my riding partners so I let it go.  After getting out my insurance and registration I started to remove my helmet to unzip my jacket to get my Dr Lic when he said..that's OK I won't ask for your Drivers Licence then, OK?

I think as Canadians we have a right to go about our business without being inconvenienced like this.  Sure, look at my permit and val tag, but don't make me undress and dig out ID etc unless I have done something unlawful. Just my opinion.  I respect the police and believe they have a place on our trail systems, but get out on Friday night on some back trails and find the drunks pissing around on the trails.  Lord knows I have seen enough of them.

The law .

Power of police officer to stop

17.1  (1)  A police officer, in the lawful execution of his or her duties and responsibilities, may require the driver of a motorized snow vehicle to stop and the driver of a motorized snow vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a police officer, shall immediately come to a safe stop. 2000, c. 30, s. 8.

 

Driver to carry documents

16.  (1)  Subject to subsection (2), every driver of a motorized snow vehicle shall carry his or her driver’s licence or motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence and evidence of the motorized snow vehicle’s registration at all times while operating a motorized snow vehicle and shall produce them when demanded by a police officer or conservation officer. 2000, c. 30, s. 7 (1).

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Well said.  We were stopped by OPP near Bracebridge last Wednesday.  This thread had me prepared to challenge if asked for paperwork.  First guy was waved over and I simply slowly moved forward to continue since he had not specifically waved me over.  He jumped back and waved me over too.  I quickly asked what I had done wrong and he said "nothing".  So I pointed to my permit and lic validation and said "may I please continue then"?  He said "no, I need to see your paperwork".  I said I objected to the request and I asked him why since we do not live in a country where police can arbitrarily ask for ID.  I just wanted him to explain to me if what he was doing was legal or not.  I did not get a yes or no answer, but he explained they do it to look for stolen sleds.  I asked if they regularly set up roadblocks on highways to look for stolen cars.  He said "no".  I asked then why do it to us? To which he responded with the stolen sled thing again.  I asked if they have ever recovered stolen sleds doing this and he said no.  At this point, I think I was embarrassing my riding partners so I let it go.  After getting out my insurance and registration I started to remove my helmet to unzip my jacket to get my Dr Lic when he said..that's OK I won't ask for your Drivers Licence then, OK?

I think as Canadians we have a right to go about our business without being inconvenienced like this.  Sure, look at my permit and val tag, but don't make me undress and dig out ID etc unless I have done something unlawful. Just my opinion.  I respect the police and believe they have a place on our trail systems, but get out on Friday night on some back trails and find the drunks pissing around on the trails.  Lord knows I have seen enough of them.

I do agree with you to a point. Police and S.T.O.P have their job to do and some of that has to check ALL paperwork from time to time as this is a way for them to catch stolen sleds. Also usually its certain sleds that are unfortuantely singled out do to their popularity for being stolen, as well maybe a few nights before there was a stolen sled reported to them that was of the same make as yours, which gives them probable cause for them to ask for all your documents. Also one more point that might be in your case, if you gave the officer any attitude? This is also a good way to be sure that you are getting the full stop instead of the simple quick stop for tp,val tag.

 

On the other point, Better coordination with all S.T.O.P and police should be done to ensure that they are evenly spread out and not so close together so that sledders aren't overburdened with having multipul stops in such a small span of trail.

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The law .

Power of police officer to stop

17.1  (1)  A police officer, in the lawful execution of his or her duties and responsibilities, may require the driver of a motorized snow vehicle to stop and the driver of a motorized snow vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a police officer, shall immediately come to a safe stop. 2000, c. 30, s. 8.

 

Driver to carry documents

16.  (1)  Subject to subsection (2), every driver of a motorized snow vehicle shall carry his or her driver’s licence or motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence and evidence of the motorized snow vehicle’s registration at all times while operating a motorized snow vehicle and shall produce them when demanded by a police officer or conservation officer. 2000, c. 30, s. 7 (1).

 

So the lesson is I guess we do not have the freedoms that we may assume we have as Canadians

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Nicely done Griff.  You've got big cojones!  

 

The 'stolen sled' excuse used on you near Bracebridge is so blatantly stupid that the cop should have been embarrassed to use it.  The Insurance Bureau of Canada reports that about 420 cars a day are stolen across the country (>153,000 per year). There are so few sleds stolen that the IBC doesn't report the numbers anywhere that I could find. The best I could find was that cars, trucks and bikes account for 92% of the motor vehicles that are stolen, and sleds are lumped in with the remaining 8% that would also include ATVs, off-road bikes, sleds and boats/PWCs.

 

The cops have a role, an important role, but it shouldn't include unnecessarily detaining sledders for these 2nd level checks.  That should be reserved for those who have (or are suspected to have) violated a law. A cop has no business stopping multiple sleds and making riders wait for their turn to have their rights violated. 

 

The standard check should take 20 seconds; check for my permit, a val tag and registration numbers or "plate" and a nod to move off. Conversely, if he catches me violating a Reg, then I deserve getting the Full Monty.

Great research WW, but it seems Zoso has found and posted the law that says we have to show paperwork on demand from a police officer or conservation officer.  I stand corrected and goes to show what uninformed assumptions are worth.

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At some point it needs to be remembered that this is an optional sport and being unnecessarily checked all paperwork with no indicator of wrong doing is enough to turn some off. It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with looking for tickets to write 

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The law .

Power of police officer to stop

17.1 (1) A police officer, in the lawful execution of his or her duties and responsibilities, may require the driver of a motorized snow vehicle to stop and the driver of a motorized snow vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a police officer, shall immediately come to a safe stop. 2000, c. 30, s. 8.

Driver to carry documents

16. (1) Subject to subsection (2), every driver of a motorized snow vehicle shall carry his or her driver’s licence or motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence and evidence of the motorized snow vehicle’s registration at all times while operating a motorized snow vehicle and shall produce them when demanded by a police officer or conservation officer. 2000, c. 30, s. 7 (1).

I guess this settles the Rights thing pretty quick. Our ownerships are in the tool kits of the sleds so we gotta open hoods etc to show them. I'm considering laminated enlarged copies of paperwork taped to the windshield if we're to be stopped for papers every ride.

I'm all for valtag & permit checks but there's a limit to even my patience .....

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The law .

Power of police officer to stop

17.1 (1) A police officer, in the lawful execution of his or her duties and responsibilities, may require the driver of a motorized snow vehicle to stop and the driver of a motorized snow vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a police officer, shall immediately come to a safe stop. 2000, c. 30, s. 8.

Driver to carry documents

16. (1) Subject to subsection (2), every driver of a motorized snow vehicle shall carry his or her driver’s licence or motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence and evidence of the motorized snow vehicle’s registration at all times while operating a motorized snow vehicle and shall produce them when demanded by a police officer or conservation officer. 2000, c. 30, s. 7 (1).

 

but why demand so often? they do not on the road 

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Well on the road if police have a hunch or want to inquire about a vehicle that they think is stolen or the person has a suspended licence, they can simply follow it and run the plate then the RO of the vehicle either through their MTD(laptop) or through dispatch all without the person being inconvienienced. Also new tech has come out with the automatic licence plate recognition system (Alprs) which uses cameras mounted on the cruisers to scan thousands of plates an hour while the officer can just concentrate on driving more unless there is a violation then the system notifies the officer so they can pursue it.

 

On the trails its harder for S.T.O.P and police to do these checks so subtly as its just not so possible to do so without interupting the sledder in order to check for stolen sleds, val tag infractions,and expired or suspended drivers licences.

 

Usually full document checks only occure if what I noted before happens- Same make of stolen sled reported comes through, the popularity of the sled for being stolen, or someone with an attitude ETC.

 

Hopefully a short distance down the road we can see this ALPRS system into the snowmobile portion as this would work great for the sledding industry as to get the idiots off the trails that shouldnt be, and to get the freeloaders off.

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Big Brother IS watching you.

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Looking for paperwork with 20 sleds stopped on a Sunday afternoon is just stupid and i'm sure it spoiils a day out for a lot of people.

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Yes I third that!

 

But at the same time police and S.T.O.P have to do their job and which unfortunately requires having to check all documents from time to time when it is required to do so. Unfortunately a lot of the time all it takes is for that ONE guy out of the group to have an ATTITUDE problem with the officers therefore setting off a kneejerk reaction having to ask them for all documents thus making all other sledders to wait. Therefore showing that individual that hopefully next time he is stopped, to not have an attitude with the officers.

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Yes I third that!

 

But at the same time police and S.T.O.P have to do their job and which unfortunately requires having to check all documents from time to time when it is required to do so. Unfortunately a lot of the time all it takes is for that ONE guy out of the group to have an ATTITUDE problem with the officers therefore setting off a kneejerk reaction having to ask them for all documents thus making all other sledders to wait. Therefore showing that individual that hopefully next time he is stopped, to not have an attitude with the officers.

and they holdup everyone back I have seen over 40 waiting the document check

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Well then hopefully those 39 other sledders will put it on that one guy to keep his yap shut and not give the officers attitude when they ask a simple question that way everyone else wont be held up next time....Just a thought........ :)

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Well then hopefully those 39 other sledders will put it on that one guy to keep his yap shut and not give the officers attitude when they ask a simple question that way everyone else wont be held up next time....Just a thought........ :)

 I dare the cops to try that on the highway 

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True but remember that policing the trails and roads are different and present their own list of problems. Police and S.T.O.P still have a job to do which at times is to check documents of certain sleds that pop out to them that they think are suspicious or think is a possibility of being stolen. An being out on the trails presents problems such as the inability to just check registration, val tags, an licences without interupting the sledders unlike being on the road they can do that without having to stop the vehicle.

 

So until police use something like the APLRS system, they will periodically have to do full document checks to satisfy the officer that their sled is not stolen ETC.

 

Put it in a different context, if your sled was stolen and that person that had your sled on the trail an was at one of these checks, wouldnt you want them to do their job and to make sure that sled wasnt stolen? if they didnt do such checks and you told them your sled was stolen then you'd be singing a different tune now wouldn't you? you'd be blaming them for not doing anything then...

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