Blake G Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm just wondering how clubs handle their accounting needs. Do they use the services of a volunteer bookkeeper (who may or may not be an actual accredited accountant) or do they pay for an accredited accountant, or are there other ways of handling the accounting duties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 blake you need someone to cook the books & take the fall...I m in..anything for sleddin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Find a volunteer accredited accountant or hire one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 blake you need someone to cook the books & take the fall...I m in..anything for sleddin no good sledding in jail Gotta stay on the outside to wear out the new machines LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vooodooo Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 You don't need to be an accountant, just good with numbers and record keeping. The people in our district office walked my wife through all the necessary filing this year (she's done book keeping/accounting for 20 years), and she was just dropped in the position cold turkey. Our association pays an accountant/manager. Our club will have little choice but to pay one for the upcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Find a volunteer accredited accountant or hire one. Or find an accountant or book keeper that has been convicted of fraud and needs community service hours to complete his/her sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I do the books for our club. I have written accounting programs for many years and so have a pretty good understanding of it. We use a commercial accounting package, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 We are using for the last 10 years the OFSC excel sheet and that is easy to use. Our year end is from April 1 to March 31. After that, I checked the input and made a yearly report. Cost $0. Most clubs do their own financials and some have a accountant who check it and write a yearly report. Cost of that is between $1500 to $4500. As club, you need to follow your Bylaws. Some Bylaws says you need a report of a registered accountant, others you can write your own financial report. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Thank you, guys, this information is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariof7 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I do the books for our club. I have written accounting programs for many years and so have a pretty good understanding of it. We use a commercial accounting package, though. I do the books for our club....explains all the new toys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I do the books for our club....explains all the new toys How many hours a month does it take? Is there also an outside accountant for certain things, so he or she can buy some toys of their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Blake, I do the books for our club. While I am not A professional accountant I do do known way around financial statements and accounting systems. Paying the bills, doing the deposits (permit sales), the monthly bank reconciliation along with a report for our club meeting takes about an hour or so each during the season. Off season (June/July/august) a lot less. Our club files HST quarterly and once you figure it out it takes about 20 minutes each quarter. The most time consuming part I find is the year end Financial Statements and the corporate filings (Corp Tax Return, F546, F523). Probably talking 3-4 hours on total. Our club by -laws permit a review by 2 members who are not signing officers of the corporation as opposed to having an audit or review engagement completed by an accountant. I think that is going to have to change once the province enacts the new Not For Profit legislation. But that is not scheduled to happen until 2026 at the earliest. The accounting model provided by the OFSC works really well for us. If we had to do payroll or had to generate account billings or statements we would certainly look to something else to handle those tasks. Hope this helpd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Very helpful, Big Pete. It seems there are quite a few clubs handling the books quite nicely, without spending much on an outside professional accountant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'm just wondering how clubs handle their accounting needs. Do they use the services of a volunteer bookkeeper (who may or may not be an actual accredited accountant) or do they pay for an accredited accountant, or are there other ways of handling the accounting duties? Our treasurer is a lawyer. He is a volunteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I do the books for our club. I have written accounting programs for many years and so have a pretty good understanding of it. We use a commercial accounting package, though. . How much does the software package cost, out of curiosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 . How much does the software package cost, out of curiosity? The previous treasurer also has a software company and we are using his package. He donated the license to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Given the struggles of clubs these days, would it be in everyone's best financial interest to merge clubs together within a district? A good example would be MSR, 9 clubs in a "Coop" system. Does this save the clubs money? Money that could be put to use on the trails instead of in an office or paying out for accounting services? I'm sure not every club can get a volunteer accountant. Keeping it positive, think perfect world. Could it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Given the struggles of clubs these days, would it be in everyone's best financial interest to merge clubs together within a district? A good example would be MSR, 9 clubs in a "Coop" system. Does this save the clubs money? Money that could be put to use on the trails instead of in an office or paying out for accounting services? I'm sure not every club can get a volunteer accountant. Keeping it positive, think perfect world. Could it work? IMO, if small clubs that are either low on funds and struggling or clubs with low km of trails and failing or no groomer merged making 1 club, would be smart. Clubs forming an association and all clubs maintaining their own entity is not wise under the current system. The reason I say that is because it causes a lopsided district, and in some cases the assoc. can pretty much rule the district, and with todays funding model, it can cause unfair distribution of funds. Some districts have gone through this for years with equalization payments, but under the matrix system the assoc. could benefit with km of trail groomed and groomer hrs for funding. The thing is, each entity needs to do a year end and file with the government, I don't see it being any less expensive unless it is a merger between multiple clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Joining Clubs together, even two, is a huge undertaking for many reasons that are quite valid. IMHO the potential savings are miniscule compared to the grief and upset that results. Our Club pays for accounting services and knowing that we are getting our HST Refund every year is well worth it. There are way too many Clubs that for whatever reason have not claimed the HST refunds and according to some at OFSC, there have been considerable $$ lost due to Clubs not claiming. Revenue Canada hassled us again last week regarding our non-profit status but our Treasurer settled them down. Our District Operations Manager, a former Accountant, has offered to assist every Club in the District in filing their HST Refund Applications which is a huge help to the smaller Clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Interesting. Maybe MSR was a poor example as my thoughts went more towards becoming a single entity. If we amalgamated 2 or 3 clubs across the districts into single clubs, then would it cut costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The major costs are buying groomers, repairing groomers, fuel and bridges in my opinion. There is little to be saved in any of these 4 items by amalgamating clubs. For very small clubs in the 100 - 200 permit sales range there might be advantages to amalgamating but you run the risk of screwing up a good thing if that club is working well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Interesting. Maybe MSR was a poor example as my thoughts went more towards becoming a single entity. If we amalgamated 2 or 3 clubs across the districts into single clubs, then would it cut costs? cost savings may be minimal but volunteer losses large if a natural fit is not the case. Learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it townships,towns and school boards were forced to amalgamate and several were ruined in the resulting forced marriages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Excellent analogy Bill. A "natural fit" is also hugely important, it can't be forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Excellent analogy Bill. A "natural fit" is also hugely important, it can't be forced. Yes, I agree that a natural fit is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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