Greggie Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Hi, The groomer and drag are the most important equipment the clubs have and be used to have well groomed trails. At the OFSC level, there are committees for trails, volunteers, stop risk management but not for groomers. Every groomer has their weak points and I think a groomer committee can help to reduce break downs for our groomers by finding solutions on recurrent break downs and coming up with recommendation how to prevent break downs. I am willing to be on that committee. What are you guys thinking, do we need a Groomer Committee? Can we prevent breakdowns? Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I believe that the trails committee does the groomers as well. There have been some of the most knowledgeable groomer people in Ontario on that committee in the recent past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 At the minimum, the OFSC should establish an internal blog or forum so that Clubs can exchange information on the various issues associated with the many types of groomers and drags. All the OFSC would need to do is list the pieces of equipment owned by each Club or Grooming Authority. The Clubs could populate the forum with their respective contact persons. Some Clubs or Associations may not need this but many of the smaller or more isolated Clubs could certainly benefit from where to buy parts, what issues to watch for, copies of parts lists and manuals, check lists, modifications, etc. We are all in this together but the information on our most important asset is not effectively shared. Some groomers have had recurring issues and this should be publicized so that prospective purchasers would be able to see what other club's experience is with that type of groomer. This is really easy to do but will it happen? Brian Baker - President North Bay Snowmobilers Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 At the minimum, the OFSC should establish an internal blog or forum so that Clubs can exchange information on the various issues associated with the many types of groomers and drags. All the OFSC would need to do is list the pieces of equipment owned by each Club or Grooming Authority. The Clubs could populate the forum with their respective contact persons. Some Clubs or Associations may not need this but many of the smaller or more isolated Clubs could certainly benefit from where to buy parts, what issues to watch for, copies of parts lists and manuals, check lists, modifications, etc. We are all in this together but the information on our most important asset is not effectively shared. Some groomers have had recurring issues and this should be publicized so that prospective purchasers would be able to see what other club's experience is with that type of groomer. This is really easy to do but will it happen? Brian Baker - President North Bay Snowmobilers Club That would be great but what would these guys do without a hotel stay and a steak dinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 That would be great but what would these guys do without a hotel stay and a steak dinner? Love that steak dinner....... Oh by the way, a steak dinner for a day of work, isn't a great hourly rate. Can better do the landscaping for $70 a hour...... Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliotgroomer Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Somthing as simple as metering the fuel after each trip would tell you the liters per hour a particular model burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I read all the OFSC Board of Governors Summaries and the AGM Reports but I don't recall ever reading anything on A Groomer Committee. I realize that the Trails Committee meets regularly and one of their functions is to decide who gets what from the Groomer Replacement Fund but nothing on maintenance, parts sources, etc. For example, we have a Tucker SnoCat 2000 groomer which has been a very expensive machine to operate, cracked frame after 1 year and lots of other issues over 7 years we have had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 At the minimum, the OFSC should establish an internal blog or forum so that Clubs can exchange information on the various issues associated with the many types of groomers and drags. All the OFSC would need to do is list the pieces of equipment owned by each Club or Grooming Authority. The Clubs could populate the forum with their respective contact persons. Some Clubs or Associations may not need this but many of the smaller or more isolated Clubs could certainly benefit from where to buy parts, what issues to watch for, copies of parts lists and manuals, check lists, modifications, etc. We are all in this together but the information on our most important asset is not effectively shared. Some groomers have had recurring issues and this should be publicized so that prospective purchasers would be able to see what other club's experience is with that type of groomer. This is really easy to do but will it happen? Brian Baker - President North Bay Snowmobilers Club Brian, For sure you can put it on a forum but still you need people to collect the information and publish it and investigate the problems. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 I believe that the trails committee does the groomers as well. There have been some of the most knowledgeable groomer people in Ontario on that committee in the recent past. The trail committee does the grants for the groomers. That they are very knowledgeable on all groomers, sorry don't agree with that. I have seen refurbishment grants approved on "home build" groomers. The sad thing is that the groomer get refurbished and never used. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 I read all the OFSC Board of Governors Summaries and the AGM Reports but I don't recall ever reading anything on A Groomer Committee. I realize that the Trails Committee meets regularly and one of their functions is to decide who gets what from the Groomer Replacement Fund but nothing on maintenance, parts sources, etc. For example, we have a Tucker SnoCat 2000 groomer which has been a very expensive machine to operate, cracked frame after 1 year and lots of other issues over 7 years we have had it. We have a club in district 1 who has 5 Tucker's and they want nothing else. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Love that steak dinner....... Oh by the way, a steak dinner for a day of work, isn't a great hourly rate. Can better do the landscaping for $70 a hour...... Thanks, Greg I have been to two day meerting in Barrie where the bill was over $1k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 At the minimum, the OFSC should establish an internal blog or forum so that Clubs can exchange information on the various issues associated with the many types of groomers and drags. All the OFSC would need to do is list the pieces of equipment owned by each Club or Grooming Authority. The Clubs could populate the forum with their respective contact persons. Some Clubs or Associations may not need this but many of the smaller or more isolated Clubs could certainly benefit from where to buy parts, what issues to watch for, copies of parts lists and manuals, check lists, modifications, etc. We are all in this together but the information on our most important asset is not effectively shared. Some groomers have had recurring issues and this should be publicized so that prospective purchasers would be able to see what other club's experience is with that type of groomer. This is really easy to do but will it happen? Brian Baker - President North Bay Snowmobilers Club I think your forumn idea is great Brian. IMO we do not need any more costs added. The forumn would give all clubs access to immediate info if they were having a problem. The OFSC site would be a great place for it and could provide the necessary security so that only the club / manufacturer / dealer groomer people could participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I read all the OFSC Board of Governors Summaries and the AGM Reports but I don't recall ever reading anything on A Groomer Committee. I realize that the Trails Committee meets regularly and one of their functions is to decide who gets what from the Groomer Replacement Fund but nothing on maintenance, parts sources, etc. For example, we have a Tucker SnoCat 2000 groomer which has been a very expensive machine to operate, cracked frame after 1 year and lots of other issues over 7 years we have had it. We did a major redesign on our tucker and it works awesome now came home every groom and leaves great trails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 I think your forumn idea is great Brian. IMO we do not need any more costs added. The forumn would give all clubs access to immediate info if they were having a problem. The OFSC site would be a great place for it and could provide the necessary security so that only the club / manufacturer / dealer groomer people could participate. For sure, you can have a forum but that doesn't get the solutions for the problems. You need people who put in the time to search for the solutions and update clubs with the groomers with the necessary information. For that you need a committee and yes it will cost some money but it will save lots and lots of money and downtime of the groomers. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't think ofsc needs a groomer commitee! Clubs have enough politics already. Just because unit A breaks at say 1500 hours, doesn't mean the exact same unit will have the same issue either. Some groomers are lemons like vechicles and others will run for thousands of hours and have very little trouble. Let the clubs manage thier fleet and not have some Joe from ofsc pull units off the trail because one unit had trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't think ofsc needs a groomer commitee! Clubs have enough politics already. Just because unit A breaks at say 1500 hours, doesn't mean the exact same unit will have the same issue either. Some groomers are lemons like vechicles and others will run for thousands of hours and have very little trouble. Let the clubs manage thier fleet and not have some Joe from ofsc pull units off the trail because one unit had trouble. It will be all up,to the clubs, if they do the "upgrades" from the groomer committee. For sure there are lots of clubs who don't maintain their groomer well, but that is another problem. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 An online forum for groomer operators to share what they learn can only be beneficial. i.e. Someone finds an inherent problem with a certain model such as a part coming loose and has a fix for it. Sharing that with others so they can be proactive can't hurt. Why wait until the encounter the same problem. It could be a busy forum or real quiet. It would be up to those who have access and cost would be essentially nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nith Valley Sledder Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Greggie, An online forum is a great idea to share ideas and concerns about the groomers but it doesn't take the OFSC office staff to set it up and maintain. The trails committee are mainly volunteer the same as the rest of us, so asking them to do another task on top of their current workload is a little unfair. Possibly the mods here might be willing to host the groomer section or some kind of deal could be arranged??? I have no idea what it takes to set up a forum like this. You could moderate it and champion it to the various snowmobile organizations. I'm sure if you contacted the OFSC office they could broadcast the forum's existence to the provincial clubs. The OFSC is a volunteer organization but it still takes one person to step up and take ownership of an issue to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The OFSC needs a Groomer Purchasing person. This person would buy groomers in Bulk and get a discounted price. They can buy each type of groomer, Husky, 2 track tractor and 4 track tractor. Get rid of each Club "Specking" out their groomer at a huge cost. When a Club or District gets awarded a new groomer from the groomer replacement fund they get a choice of 3 units which were purchased at a "volume discount". Also before any Club gets a groomer they should have the opportunity to purchase a trade in from a Club that had very few hours rather than buying new. Why does everyone need a "new" groomer? There are plenty of demos and trade ins with huge savings. There is way too many groomers being bought at full retail and trade in's getting very little with Clubs having to continue using old groomers with 10,000+ hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 bulk purchase less than 10 groomers per year that is not big buying power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 bulk purchase less than 10 groomers per year that is not big buying power So if I bought 10 used sleds from you I wouldn't get a deal? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So if I bought 10 used sleds from you I wouldn't get a deal? I think not. the problem is that the dealers have to make a buck to survive they do not have many other places to sell the wares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 the problem is that the dealers have to make a buck to survive they do not have many other places to sell the wares So 3 dealers sell 3/4 groomers each and its not good for them? No benefit from parts, service and warranty work? And you own a business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So 3 dealers sell 3/4 groomers each and its not good for them? No benefit from parts, service and warranty work? There isn't a huge markup on groomers. I am a farmer. I can get a new tractor today with more features and costs about 15k less then the same unit with less features 10 years ago. All of the dealers make money on servicing the units. Most dealers have mobile service, they come to the equipment to eliminate float charges. I am sure clubs use mobile crews too, to service equipment. Once equipment is out of warranty, I do my own work. And you own a business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 bulk purchase less than 10 groomers per year that is not big buying power It would likely give you more leverage than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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