2013-2014 permits

[marximuus]

Just noticed on FS permit forumn that you are told what permit count sold is based on what is populated on your profile.  I was permit 8305 on Oct/21 around 9:20PM.  Someone was in the 7200 range earlier that day.  Does anyone have a more updated purchase to see where sales are at?

[bbakernbay]

All the Clubs and districts are anxious to see what kind of numbers are being sold and to whom.

 

Hopefully Permit Tracking System will be online soon.

 

Nice thing about online sales:

 

1. Purchaser pays Credit Card charge through the $7.00 fee

2. No data entry for Club which is a pain

3. Clubs will get more e-mail addresses hopefully so we can communicate directly during season.

[02Sled]

All the Clubs and districts are anxious to see what kind of numbers are being sold and to whom.

 

Hopefully Permit Tracking System will be online soon.

 

Nice thing about online sales:

 

1. Purchaser pays Credit Card charge through the $7.00 fee

2. No data entry for Club which is a pain

3. Clubs will get more e-mail addresses hopefully so we can communicate directly during season.

all positive things

[maddmaxx]

The disadvantage for the American buyer (me) is that they deliver it signature required. Although I would like to hang at the house all day and wait for my permit I really need to work to pay for my winter sledding. Went through that experience a few years ago so I buy direct from a club of my choosing.

 

The most important question is will I be able to purchase a permit at the big show this weekend and take it home with me. In an effort to save the $27.50 I will drive 3.5 hours american to go to the show. Joking of course, my wife thinks we are going to Niagara Falls for a romantic weekend, wait til I pull into the snowmobile show "just to look". We will see who gets the last laugh on this one!

 

Thanks,

Max

[marximuus]

 

 

The most important question is will I be able to purchase a permit at the big show this weekend and take it home with me.

Because the show is before November 2nd only online purchases will be available.  Delivery method will still be the same as if you purchase online from home.  Good luck with the romantic surprise.

[02Sled]

The disadvantage for the American buyer (me) is that they deliver it signature required. Although I would like to hang at the house all day and wait for my permit I really need to work to pay for my winter sledding. Went through that experience a few years ago so I buy direct from a club of my choosing.

 

The most important question is will I be able to purchase a permit at the big show this weekend and take it home with me. In an effort to save the $27.50 I will drive 3.5 hours american to go to the show. Joking of course, my wife thinks we are going to Niagara Falls for a romantic weekend, wait til I pull into the snowmobile show "just to look". We will see who gets the last laugh on this one!

 

Thanks,

Max

I have mine being delivered to the office since security is there 24X7 to receive anything coming in. Is there a difference between 3.5 hours American and 3.5 hours Canadian?

 

Good luck with your wife and the sled show. You are a braver man than me.

[maddmaxx]

I have mine being delivered to the office since security is there 24X7 to receive anything coming in. Is there a difference between 3.5 hours American and 3.5 hours Canadian?

 

Good luck with your wife and the sled show. You are a braver man than me.

 

You mean to tell me we dont get an exchange rate on our time anymore either? Damn global economy! Dont make me break out into the "when I was younger" stories and how favorable the exchange rate was.

 

Seriously, dont take me too serious. Seemed the permit thing was getting somewhat tense so I was more joking than anything.

 

I think most of the state side Ontario sledders feel the same as me. You Ontario folks do a great job with the trail system and be thankful for what you have. Try to support it and we (I) dont mind paying for the priveledge of riding your trails. Although my NY registration and trail pass is cheaper, it is no comparison. You need to come down here on a busy weekend to experience it for yourself. Last year I had my Beaverton bud down to my Old Forge cottage on Presidents weekend, he will probably never comeback!

 

And a FYI for you all, I am going to pull the stop at the show move this weekend with the wife. If you don't hear from me when the snow starts, send out the mounties. It could be bad!

[Sasquatch777]

Just noticed on FS permit forumn that you are told what permit count sold is based on what is populated on your profile.  I was permit 8305 on Oct/21 around 9:20PM.  Someone was in the 7200 range earlier that day.  Does anyone have a more updated purchase to see where sales are at?

 

No but I was 500 something the morning after the sales went online!

[Doo Dad]

I tried to buy online (and think I did) but my order status has been "pending" for 2 days.  Anyone know if this is normal??

[sledjunk]

I tried to buy online (and think I did) but my order status has been "pending" for 2 days.  Anyone know if this is normal??

I hope so!  Mine says the same and I ordered Oct 10.  I expect the next status would be shipped, but I don't know.

[Turbo Doo]

I hope so!  Mine says the same and I ordered Oct 10.  I expect the next status would be shipped, but I don't know.

Same here, since my visa is already charged! Fingers crossed..

[Sledguy74]

My mastercard shows the charge too, hope its on its way soon

[yamaha06]

Finally purchased my trail permit tonight!!  Had a very hard time choosing which club I wanted to support as I enjoy riding all the trails!! 

[02Sled]

Based on some of the comments made online recently by Americans upset about the additional $20 they would pay to buy the permit online I did some research. When a couple of Americans were expressing their displeasure with as they called it "being ripped off" at the show yesterday and how the OFSC was stupid for doing this I explained.

 

Buying the permit online is buying a product with a dollar value and no different than if they bought perhaps a new helmet from a retailer in Canada and had it shipped to the U.S. The same premise works in the opposite direction as well. By something from the U.S. and have it shipped to Niagara Falls N.Y. and shipping is often free or relatively small. Have it shipped from the U.S. to Niagara Falls Ont. and the shipping fees skyrocket. Why? The border crossing. Since the permit is considered a product with a dollar value a customs declaration must be filled completed and processed. Typically anything requiring a customs declaration also requires a customs broker for it to cross the border. Most often the courier company you send by becomes your customs broker unless you do this often and already have one. None of that happens for free. Hence the $20 charge.

 

I run into this all the time. We have data centres in Canada and the U.S. and send things between the sites all the time. Even though it is from one corporate site to another we still need to do the customs declaration and our customs broker handles the paper work.

 

When this was explained they kind of lost their indignation but still felt it was a rip off. I suggested they bring it up with the U.S. federal government since it is their laws that require this for goods being shipped into the U.S. and reminded them it was their laws that put in place the passport requirement to cross the border that they also weren't happy with. "We never used to need a passport, how come we do now?"

[Classic]

Based on some of the comments made online recently by Americans upset about the additional $20 they would pay to buy the permit online I did some research. When a couple of Americans were expressing their displeasure with as they called it "being ripped off" at the show yesterday and how the OFSC was stupid for doing this I explained.

 

Buying the permit online is buying a product with a dollar value and no different than if they bought perhaps a new helmet from a retailer in Canada and had it shipped to the U.S. The same premise works in the opposite direction as well. By something from the U.S. and have it shipped to Niagara Falls N.Y. and shipping is often free or relatively small. Have it shipped from the U.S. to Niagara Falls Ont. and the shipping fees skyrocket. Why? The border crossing. Since the permit is considered a product with a dollar value a customs declaration must be filled completed and processed. Typically anything requiring a customs declaration also requires a customs broker for it to cross the border. Most often the courier company you send by becomes your customs broker unless you do this often and already have one. None of that happens for free. Hence the $20 charge.

 

I run into this all the time. We have data centres in Canada and the U.S. and send things between the sites all the time. Even though it is from one corporate site to another we still need to do the customs declaration and our customs broker handles the paper work.

 

When this was explained they kind of lost their indignation but still felt it was a rip off. I suggested they bring it up with the U.S. federal government since it is their laws that require this for goods being shipped into the U.S. and reminded them it was their laws that put in place the passport requirement to cross the border that they also weren't happy with. "We never used to need a passport, how come we do now?"

Very good response.That should help clear the air a bit.

[dweese]

Ordered mine online today... took about 5 mins no problems..

 

I held off on the classic one for my second sled, I'll pick that up in person so my club doesn't get hit with the $7.50 processing fee.

[skidooboy]

Based on some of the comments made online recently by Americans upset about the additional $20 they would pay to buy the permit online I did some research. When a couple of Americans were expressing their displeasure with as they called it "being ripped off" at the show yesterday and how the OFSC was stupid for doing this I explained.

 

Buying the permit online is buying a product with a dollar value and no different than if they bought perhaps a new helmet from a retailer in Canada and had it shipped to the U.S. The same premise works in the opposite direction as well. By something from the U.S. and have it shipped to Niagara Falls N.Y. and shipping is often free or relatively small. Have it shipped from the U.S. to Niagara Falls Ont. and the shipping fees skyrocket. Why? The border crossing. Since the permit is considered a product with a dollar value a customs declaration must be filled completed and processed. Typically anything requiring a customs declaration also requires a customs broker for it to cross the border. Most often the courier company you send by becomes your customs broker unless you do this often and already have one. None of that happens for free. Hence the $20 charge.

 

I run into this all the time. We have data centres in Canada and the U.S. and send things between the sites all the time. Even though it is from one corporate site to another we still need to do the customs declaration and our customs broker handles the paper work.

 

When this was explained they kind of lost their indignation but still felt it was a rip off. I suggested they bring it up with the U.S. federal government since it is their laws that require this for goods being shipped into the U.S. and reminded them it was their laws that put in place the passport requirement to cross the border that they also weren't happy with. "We never used to need a passport, how come we do now?"

 

02 this is nothing more than your opinion, not an actual policy from which you retreived this from the ofsc. it has nothing to do with a declared value. it is a delivery confirmation issue... the ofsc is affraid of using regular canada post to cross border deliver with the usps (u.s. postal service). if you read the fine print, it says for canadian residents opting for the canada post option, the ofsc absolves themselves of delivery assurance, and it becomes an issue for the reciever, not the ofsc if said permits are not recieved. (which as i stated before is a totally wrong assumption on the ofsc's part. the reciever has no recourse with a delivery entity. the contract with the delivery entity is with the sender, not the reciever).

 

the explanation to the masses you have given sounds good but, you are not giving the exact correct information to those you are "trying to help" understand the added cost to u.s tourists.

 

the ofsc should have been better prepared at the shows, and sold permits at the booths with online sale staff present. think of the pre-sales they just lost in TO, and the novi show is this weekend too. think about the lost sales there.  

 

the ofsc the clubs, ect... always want more permit sales but, shorted sightedness just cost them hundreds of u.s tourists seasonal permit sales. possibly now only getting week passes or less, or even possibly more freeloaders.

 

and the pasport thing was decided on by BOTH SIDES, due to the effects of terrorism post 9-11-01

 

Ski

[dweese]

Actually 02 and Ski, your both right....

I got a speeding ticket on the bike down south few years ago and had to pay via a money order.. Cost me $16 to get a delivery confirmation. And because the money order was insured for a dollar value which I'm sure the OFSC is doing. I had to the customs paperwork as well. My $67 ticket became $104 after all the fees.

But ya, OFSC should have had permits on hand to sell at the show, another boneheaded move by them for not selling them on site. I have to wonder sometimes what clueless person forgets things like that. Go to the Toronto Ski show next month. You can buy passes and gift cards for resorts all around the world that weekend.

With moves like this, it's becoming clearer and clearer the OFSC is losing sight of their customer. Maybe we should get rid of the OFSC and just let MTO run the system like other places do, at least then we would expect screw ups like this. But that's for a different topic

As for the passport thing, that was being pushed long before 911, it just got fast tracked after the fact.

[Nith Valley Sledder]

I don't know what everyone is bitching about. The OFSC member clubs have given the riders a chance to get their permit early at a greater discount than usual in an effort to drive early season sales to get the monies flowing early so the clubs have something to work with. Just because the permits are not available at the show doesn't mean the OFSC has lost sales. These people will likely still buy them either online before the Nov 1 cutoff or they will pay the higher $210 or $250 cost. There will minimal people who refuse to purchase a permit at all just because they couldn't buy it at the show. These numbers won't be enough to worry about.

 

I personally think the early permit price of $180 is a big mistake. I bought my permit online last night and my order number was 45691. If this is indicative of the number of early permit sales then we have lost $1.3M in revenue to this point and I don't think any extra permit sales we might get will come anywhere near making up that loss.

[skidooboy]

nith... you clearly are missing some of the coversation here. the people missing out on buying at the 180 price point are U.S tourists. we have to pay the 7.50 fee, and a 20.00 processing fee to get the permits to our us addresses, and then pay a credit card transaction for currency exhange approx 5.00 (or more). less the exhange rate which is 1.04 tp the us side which is really treated like par. by the time we jump threw all these hoops, it is actually more than the nov-dec early bird pricing. so we really dont save anything. (and it feels like a slap in the face for us being LONG TIME OFSC AND CLUB SUPPORTERS)

 

it is faster, easier, and more cost effective for us and the clubs get more money upfront, if the u.s people buy from the local clubs. but, we cant order our permits until the pre,pre sale is over. (after nov 2, before dec 1st).

 

i am really thinking i am not going to buy this year, and ride areas without trails, give those local economies a boost, and ride the trails late to access my normal late season fishing access spots only. if our whole group did that.... it would be 8 permits the local club i normally help would not get. i hate to do it to my friends but, we need to send a message.

 

 

Ski

[whiskywizard]

nith... you clearly are missing some of the coversation here. the people missing out on buying at the 180 price point are U.S tourists. we have to pay the 7.50 fee, and a 20.00 processing fee to get the permits to our us addresses, and then pay a credit card transaction for currency exhange approx 5.00 (or more). less the exhange rate which is 1.04 tp the us side which is really treated like par. by the time we jump threw all these hoops, it is actually more than the nov-dec early bird pricing. so we really dont save anything. (and it feels like a slap in the face for us being LONG TIME OFSC AND CLUB SUPPORTERS)

 

it is faster, easier, and more cost effective for us and the clubs get more money upfront, if the u.s people buy from the local clubs. but, we cant order our permits until the pre,pre sale is over. (after nov 2, before dec 1st).

 

i am really thinking i am not going to buy this year, and ride areas without trails, give those local economies a boost, and ride the trails late to access my normal late season fishing access spots only. if our whole group did that.... it would be 8 permits the local club i normally help would not get. i hate to do it to my friends but, we need to send a message.

 

 

Ski

When you're buying something from another country there are fees, taxes, and often duties. We Canucks get hosed the exact same way if we buy goods or services from the US.  It's not a secret or a surprise, so we factor those fees into the buying decision.  If I can't tolerate the extra cross-border costs, I buy locally.  You can do the same.  Buy now online and pony up the fees that are offset by the discount, or wait until Nov 2 and buy your permits the same way you did last year. Or don't buy at all.  It's entirely your call. But if you don't buy a permit, and can't ride legally in Ontario, who do you think will hear your message?

 

BTW, if you don't cover the costs associated with your permit purchase, who should cover those costs for you? An Ontario resident? 

[02Sled]

02 this is nothing more than your opinion, not an actual policy from which you retreived this from the ofsc. it has nothing to do with a declared value. it is a delivery confirmation issue... the ofsc is affraid of using regular canada post to cross border deliver with the usps (u.s. postal service). if you read the fine print, it says for canadian residents opting for the canada post option, the ofsc absolves themselves of delivery assurance, and it becomes an issue for the reciever, not the ofsc if said permits are not recieved. (which as i stated before is a totally wrong assumption on the ofsc's part. the reciever has no recourse with a delivery entity. the contract with the delivery entity is with the sender, not the reciever).

 

the explanation to the masses you have given sounds good but, you are not giving the exact correct information to those you are "trying to help" understand the added cost to u.s tourists.

 

the ofsc should have been better prepared at the shows, and sold permits at the booths with online sale staff present. think of the pre-sales they just lost in TO, and the novi show is this weekend too. think about the lost sales there.  

 

the ofsc the clubs, ect... always want more permit sales but, shorted sightedness just cost them hundreds of u.s tourists seasonal permit sales. possibly now only getting week passes or less, or even possibly more freeloaders.

 

and the pasport thing was decided on by BOTH SIDES, due to the effects of terrorism post 9-11-01

 

Ski

Sorry but you are mistaken... this is not my opinion. Like I said I did my homework. I spoke to our corporate customs broker who handles millions of dollars of cross border shipments for us a year. Seems to me that people whose only business is shipping things across the border may actually know a thing or two about it. The permit would simply be regarded the same as any other product sold and shipped across the border. You surely aren't suggesting that the OFSC should disregard border regulations.

 

From the Canadian Border Services website (I couldn't find the same information for US Customs but according to our broker they are essentially the same).

 

As with all goods coming into Canada, a proper declaration must be made on any items being imported by mail to enable border services officers (BSOs) to correctly assess the incoming goods.

• When an item is mailed to Canada from abroad, the sender completes a customs declaration form giving the value, origin and a detailed description of the goods.
• Upon arrival in Canada, all international mail items are presented by Canada Post to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) to process through the Agency's Postal Program.
• BSOs visually inspect each piece of mail to determine its admissibility and confirm whether it contains dutiable or taxable goods. If the BSO determines that a mail item is not prohibited from entering Canada and is not subject to duties or taxes, the item is released to Canada Post for immediate delivery.
• Otherwise, the BSO forwards the item for further inspection by the CBSA or by another government department or agency before the item can continue in the postal process.

 

As for the passports you are only partly right. It was not decided on by both sides post 9-11. It was decided by the U.S. post 9-11. The Canadian and in particular Ontario government were lobbying for approval of an enhanced Ontario drivers licence being suitable for crossing the border into the U.S. and a couple of other documents. There were concessions made by the U.S. government for land and water crossing but not air travel.

 

From the Canadian Government Passport Office

 

All travellers, including US and Canadian citizens, must present a valid passport or other approved secure document when entering the United States

 

 

 

The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) is a U.S. law that requires all travellers, including U.S. and Canadian citizens, to present a valid passport or other approved secure document when entering the United States from within the western hemisphere

 

When entering the United States by land or water, Canadian citizens are required to present one of the following valid documents: a passport, a NEXUS card, a Free and Secure Trade (FAST) card or an enhanced driver's licence/enhanced identification card or a Secure Certificate of Indian Status (when this certificate is available and approved by the United States).

Canadian citizens flying to the United States must present a valid passport to confirm their citizenship and identity. A NEXUS card is also acceptable when using a self-serve kiosk located in the pre-clearance area at designated Canadian airports.

 

Recently I found but am currently unable to locate the documentation but a U.S. resident is actually legally able to get into Canada with a driver's licence. The problem they have is not being able to get back home without one of the ID's listed above depending on how you crossed the border. That is why Canadian Border Services typically ask for the passport. That way they know the American citizen can get back home.  

[ToSlow]

i do like the fact that i can if i miss the first date for saving, have another chance if i buy before dec 1st.

[02Sled]

I don't know what everyone is bitching about. The OFSC member clubs have given the riders a chance to get their permit early at a greater discount than usual in an effort to drive early season sales to get the monies flowing early so the clubs have something to work with. Just because the permits are not available at the show doesn't mean the OFSC has lost sales. These people will likely still buy them either online before the Nov 1 cutoff or they will pay the higher $210 or $250 cost. There will minimal people who refuse to purchase a permit at all just because they couldn't buy it at the show. These numbers won't be enough to worry about.

 

I personally think the early permit price of $180 is a big mistake. I bought my permit online last night and my order number was 45691. If this is indicative of the number of early permit sales then we have lost $1.3M in revenue to this point and I don't think any extra permit sales we might get will come anywhere near making up that loss.

That was order number... how many of those 45,691 orders were for multiple permits and not just single permits. If 50% of them were for two permits. That would be 68,536 permits. It has been suggested the OFSC would have the sales reports immediately, likely Mon Nov 4

[Nith Valley Sledder]

Ski,

I'm not missing anything. As it has been pointed out you are just paying for the costs involved with buying your permit online. If you don't pay for a permit the OFSC really isn't missing out on a lot in the grand scheme of things. Your wallet means more to the local economies when you come up here to ride than it does to the OFSC based on the tourist numbers. Most out of province riders will still come and buy permits because they like our trail system. This special discount is meant to get the vast majority of local riders to buy early and hopefully get some of the lapsed permit buyers back into the sport. Getting a $22.50 discount really isn't a big deal for most of the locals that already put numerous hours into building and maintaining the trails.