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2013-2014 permits


X dooer

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I understood that the Ride Our Trails Day DOES require a permit. The permit is issued at no cost, but you must have it or you can be charged. No?

That is exactly correct . You went online to get a free permit for the weekend. Really not that much trouble for a free ride.

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But could you be charged? Doubt that, but stranger things have happened.

 

You can absolutely be charged!  As Bill says, registering for a free pass for the weekend is a small price to pay.

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I am not sure why I am adding my advice here , but because my Ontario Gaming industry has constantly been sensitive to trying to hold on to the elusive American tourist dollars, I will throw in my two cents.

the Ontario residents will typically have a certain amount of disposable income and it will primarily stay in Ontario, so whether they go Snowmachine for a weekend , or whether they go to a fancy eating establishment , or whatever, their entertainment disposable dollars are pretty stable, but who gets it in Ontario just changes. The only new money we can bring in to province comes from outside province.

The OFSC and people here should be sensitive to the need to court those potential new customers and or cling to dearly those existing yearly habit tourists that come here. (like Skidooboy) The OFSC and many here at this site need to be far more sensitive to being customer service stewards for the product that you want to see stay as it is or improve in Ontario. Take it from me where we saw how little things added up to cause the American tourists to no longer bother to visit our gaming establishments, first it was tighter no smoking, then tighter drinking at tables rules, then border hassles(not Ontario's fault for that one) , then US economy tanked. Now our border located gaming has tanked, and all we have left is the Ontario customer. That could easily happen to OFSC too if they nickle and dime the tourist until the hassle becomes too much. Just remember it takes ten times the effort to get a new customer as it does to keep your old ones.

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I understood that the Ride Our Trails Day DOES require a permit. The permit is issued at no cost, but you must have it or you can be charged. No?

Ontario law says you must have a permit. Although its free you still have to go online and print it out and attach to your sled.

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I orderd two permits. One for my sled and one for my wifes sled on one order.

...and each of those permits was assignd a number speciic to that permit. You were givn one order number and also given to other numbers one each assgned to each permit and can be seen on your profile on the web portal.

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 appreciate the offer canuck but, most cc companies will not allow billing to one address and shipping to another. fraud being the key factor in this.

 

really i dont care one way or another for me. i am one of the biggest promoters of snowmobiling in northern ontario. it is the masses of non resident tourists that already hear of the high trail permit pricing, and now adding even more fees while touting a "discount". you wont ever be able to break through to these people to add them as permit buyers. this becomes a permenant problem when trying to entice non resident tourists to add more permit sales on a more than one time only deal. Ski

This system will infat allow the permits to be shipped to the address of your choice.

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Bottom line... border regulations apply universally whether it's the OFSC selling and shipping a product or whether it's a commercial retailer. I don't need to ask the OFSC what the border regulations are. Reality is that likely nobody in their office are well versed in them anyhow. Ensuring that the regulations are complied with would be the responsibility of the 3rd party fullfillment company they contracted with.

canada post charges 16.60 to send the permit to the states with a sig, no custom brokers rquired, you are wrong about that.

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canada post charges 16.60 to send the permit to the states with a sig, no custom brokers rquired, you are wrong about that.

Canada Post, FedEx, UPS all have departments where they act as your customs brokers. What do you think that 16.60 fee is for... more than just a signature at the other end. I get calls from couriers all the time for shipments coming from the U.S. asking if I want them to process/pay the customs fees for which they will charge me, (on my credit card) or do I have my own customs broker, which I do. At times customs brokerage fees are included in the purchase price and paid by the vendor (just like the OFSC $20) so the recipient doesn't have any fees due on delivery.

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This system will infat allow the permits to be shipped to the address of your choice.

the system may allow that but, ,many credit cards in the states wont allow it, or will flag it as fraud, and contact the card holder, especially cross border.

 

as far as the duty fees are concerned i would bet if a judge were to hear something like this, they could possibly say there is no value to declare for an ontario permit to be in the states, as it has no value unless there is snow on the ground and the permit itself is in ontario. it is not a tangible product, goods, or services when shipped to the states. but, it would be a huge fight and a slippery slope and could go either way. Ski

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Canada Post, FedEx, UPS all have departments where they act as your customs brokers. What do you think that 16.60 fee is for... more than just a signature at the other end. I get calls from couriers all the time for shipments coming from the U.S. asking if I want them to process/pay the customs fees for which they will charge me, (on my credit card) or do I have my own customs broker, which I do. At times customs brokerage fees are included in the purchase price and paid by the vendor (just like the OFSC $20) so the recipient doesn't have any fees due on delivery.

Send it without a sig and it is 2.99. Again, no broker no declared value, not a product, just as if you had a val tag mailed to you in the states. You are as usual wrong.

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Either way, great deal for my two permits. System only allowed me to buy one at a time? $7.50 x 2 egg management fee. Had to pay to order two permits. Either way better than the price for two after Nov 1st. Its like raising the price of beer, like we are not gonna pay?? Cheers......my two cents worth.

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just bought 3 permits...1 is classic...was fairly ez...1 from home club,1 for north bay & 1 for luc's club...cheaper than buyin 2 after dec 1st...what a steal....start the car...go-go-go :hyper:

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just bought 3 permits...1 is classic...was fairly ez...1 from home club,1 for north bay & 1 for luc's club...cheaper than buyin 2 after dec 1st...what a steal....start the car...go-go-go

:hyper:

Hopefully Canada post guy, doesn't think your trail permits are charmin!

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Send it without a sig and it is 2.99. Again, no broker no declared value, not a product, just as if you had a val tag mailed to you in the states. You are as usual wrong.

$2.99 and no sig, and what happens if it doesn't make it? Things still get lost in the mail, and stollen as well.

A lot less headache for the OFSC to ship it with a tracking number and an insured value. That way no one is out anything if it does get lossed. However once you insure it, there is a value to it and that has to be declared with customs. Which is an extra charge for paperwork. One wouldn't think there would be any duty added, because the permit can't be used in the US, but who knows how that trade rule works.

It's the first year for this extra early bird pricing, hopefully next year they work these bugs out.

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$2.99 and no sig, and what happens if it doesn't make it? Things still get lost in the mail, and stollen as well.

A lot less headache for the OFSC to ship it with a tracking number and an insured value. That way no one is out anything if it does get lossed. However once you insure it, there is a value to it and that has to be declared with customs. Which is an extra charge for paperwork. One wouldn't think there would be any duty added, because the permit can't be used in the US, but who knows how that trade rule works.

It's the first year for this extra early bird pricing, hopefully next year they work these bugs out.

That would be why they are sending it with a sig required. They add 10 bucks here in canada for that opion for a ttal of 17.50 just 2.50 less than the us buyers are asked to pay.Still, my point was ther are no brokerage fees, it is simply canada post and USPS charges plus a litle profit for the clearing house.

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Send it without a sig and it is 2.99. Again, no broker no declared value, not a product, just as if you had a val tag mailed to you in the states. You are as usual wrong.

Zoso as usual you are way wrong. Do your homework and you will find out how wrong you are. Sure send a letter to a friend in the U.S. you are right. For a letter there isn't customs declarations there isn't any of that required. But nobody bought a product that is being shipped when you send that letter to a friend did they. I send an envelope with paper documents to the U.S. weekly and it is roughly $3.00+ depending on the weight of the envelope but it wasn't a purchased product. No customs declaration required. The minute I send anything with a $ value it legally needs customs declarations. Last week I sent a network switch from here to Quincy Washington. Our company asset to another of our company locations. That needed a customs declaration. I didn't work with our customs broker but my counterpart in Washington had to provide our customs broker information before U.S. customs would release the item.

 

Are you really stupid enough, maybe you are, to even suggest that the third party company processing the permits break the law and jeopardize their business by just sticking the permit in an envelope and send it to the U.S. without the declaration. They violate the customs laws, get fined and then have everything they ship in future scrutinized. Good for their business and reputation to potential customers of their service. The permit in the eyes of customs is a product that has a purchased dollar value to the recipient, the guy in the U.S. The sender by law has to submit a customs declaration. That paperwork has to be processed and that is handled by the customs broker be it CanPost, FedEx or whoever acting on behalf of the sender.  

 

Try asking a customs broker...or CCRA. They will set you straight.

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$2.99 and no sig, and what happens if it doesn't make it? Things still get lost in the mail, and stollen as well.

A lot less headache for the OFSC to ship it with a tracking number and an insured value. That way no one is out anything if it does get lossed. However once you insure it, there is a value to it and that has to be declared with customs. Which is an extra charge for paperwork. One wouldn't think there would be any duty added, because the permit can't be used in the US, but who knows how that trade rule works.

It's the first year for this extra early bird pricing, hopefully next year they work these bugs out.

Under Free Trade if it is made in the U.S. or Canada and shipped across the border there isn't duty. It still needs the customs declaration and whoever acts as your customs broker be it the courier, CanPost or an actual customs broker they still want to be paid.

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So here it is Oct 31... the final stages of the $180 permit and guess what. The servers and communications are getting overloaded. Surprised? No! That is why I bought ours very early. The morning after they were available. A whole lot of people apparently are upset and complaining. There is an old phrase you snooze you lose.

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Last day for $180 permits, wonder if the OFSC will drop a hint as too how many they sold?

I know they don't have too, but it would be nice if they posted some of that information a little more freely...

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So here it is Oct 31... the final stages of the $180 permit and guess what. The servers and communications are getting overloaded. Surprised? No! That is why I bought ours very early. The morning after they were available. A whole lot of people apparently are upset and complaining. There is an old phrase you snooze you lose.

i got mine yesterday 

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Zoso as usual you are way wrong. Do your homework and you will find out how wrong you are. Sure send a letter to a friend in the U.S. you are right. For a letter there isn't customs declarations there isn't any of that required. But nobody bought a product that is being shipped when you send that letter to a friend did they. I send an envelope with paper documents to the U.S. weekly and it is roughly $3.00+ depending on the weight of the envelope but it wasn't a purchased product. No customs declaration required. The minute I send anything with a $ value it legally needs customs declarations. Last week I sent a network switch from here to Quincy Washington. Our company asset to another of our company locations. That needed a customs declaration. I didn't work with our customs broker but my counterpart in Washington had to provide our customs broker information before U.S. customs would release the item.

 

Are you really stupid enough, maybe you are, to even suggest that the third party company processing the permits break the law and jeopardize their business by just sticking the permit in an envelope and send it to the U.S. without the declaration. They violate the customs laws, get fined and then have everything they ship in future scrutinized. Good for their business and reputation to potential customers of their service. The permit in the eyes of customs is a product that has a purchased dollar value to the recipient, the guy in the U.S. The sender by law has to submit a customs declaration. That paperwork has to be processed and that is handled by the customs broker be it CanPost, FedEx or whoever acting on behalf of the sender.  

 

Try asking a customs broker...or CCRA. They will set you straight.

There's a catch 22 when exporting into the US. Written correspondence and documents of no value are exempted from declaration. If you decide the permit is neither a product nor a service nor a monetary instrument, and It cannot be redeemed for cash. it has no value. It is essentially a receipt showing payment was made for future access to a facility. It's a coupon, a pass. Mailed thusly, it is not subject to a customs declaration. However, if you insure it, you're deeming it have value and a declaration is required. Requiring a signature does not imply value.

And why would you consult CCRA? Unless somebody is attempting to return a permit, US Customs sets these rules, not Canada.

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There's a catch 22 when exporting into the US. Written correspondence and documents of no value are exempted from declaration. If you decide the permit is neither a product nor a service nor a monetary instrument, and It cannot be redeemed for cash. it has no value. It is essentially a receipt showing payment was made for future access to a facility. It's a coupon, a pass. Mailed thusly, it is not subject to a customs declaration. However, if you insure it, you're deeming it have value and a declaration is required. Requiring a signature does not imply value.

And why would you consult CCRA? Unless somebody is attempting to return a permit, US Customs sets these rules, not Canada.

It's just easier to get a hold of CCRA from within Canada than it is to get a hold of U.S. customs. At least that has been my experience. Both agencies know the regualtions of each other intimately. They also are essentially the same ever since Free Trade.  If you follow the interpretation that the permit is nothing more than a receipt then you may have a vailid argument that a court may decide in your favour but then again may not. If you are running the business SELLING the permit... are you going to take the chance and challenge it in court or are you going to take no chances and make sure you are compliant.

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 Tick, tick, tick, tick... Time's slipping away.
Have you bought your $180 Seasonal Permit yet? 
Don't be kicking yourself after the fact...

 

 

got this in my inbox today from OFSC

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Under Free Trade if it is made in the U.S. or Canada and shipped across the border there isn't duty. It still needs the customs declaration and whoever acts as your customs broker be it the courier, CanPost or an actual customs broker they still want to be paid.

 

Zoso as usual you are way wrong. Do your homework and you will find out how wrong you are. Sure send a letter to a friend in the U.S. you are right. For a letter there isn't customs declarations there isn't any of that required. But nobody bought a product that is being shipped when you send that letter to a friend did they. I send an envelope with paper documents to the U.S. weekly and it is roughly $3.00+ depending on the weight of the envelope but it wasn't a purchased product. No customs declaration required. The minute I send anything with a $ value it legally needs customs declarations. Last week I sent a network switch from here to Quincy Washington. Our company asset to another of our company locations. That needed a customs declaration. I didn't work with our customs broker but my counterpart in Washington had to provide our customs broker information before U.S. customs would release the item.

 

Are you really stupid enough, maybe you are, to even suggest that the third party company processing the permits break the law and jeopardize their business by just sticking the permit in an envelope and send it to the U.S. without the declaration. They violate the customs laws, get fined and then have everything they ship in future scrutinized. Good for their business and reputation to potential customers of their service. The permit in the eyes of customs is a product that has a purchased dollar value to the recipient, the guy in the U.S. The sender by law has to submit a customs declaration. That paperwork has to be processed and that is handled by the customs broker be it CanPost, FedEx or whoever acting on behalf of the sender.  

 

Try asking a customs broker...or CCRA. They will set you straight.

It is shipped declared as documents with a $10.00 declared value, the cost to replace a lost pass. Again you are wrong.

 

just bought another one today, so far 32584 have been sld, this inludes any classics that have also ben bought.

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I'm confused by 02 Sled's comment about buying 2 permits on the same order; unless he meant ownerships for both his wife's sled and his own are in his name.

 

 The account must be in the registered owner's name, yes?  I bought  both mine and Mrs Whit's on 1 order 'cuz both sleds are in my name.  But normally we buy an additional permit for our son, who owns his own sled and lives in Southern Ontario.  I can't do that online.  In fact, the system wouldn't even allow me to open an additional account  for his info using my same e-mail address.  I needed to do that to access the link to establish a permanent password, but it wouldn"t let me.

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