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2013-2014 permits


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nith... you clearly are missing some of the coversation here. the people missing out on buying at the 180 price point are U.S tourists. we have to pay the 7.50 fee, and a 20.00 processing fee to get the permits to our us addresses, and then pay a credit card transaction for currency exhange approx 5.00 (or more). less the exhange rate which is 1.04 tp the us side which is really treated like par. by the time we jump threw all these hoops, it is actually more than the nov-dec early bird pricing. so we really dont save anything. (and it feels like a slap in the face for us being LONG TIME OFSC AND CLUB SUPPORTERS)

 

it is faster, easier, and more cost effective for us and the clubs get more money upfront, if the u.s people buy from the local clubs. but, we cant order our permits until the pre,pre sale is over. (after nov 2, before dec 1st).

 

i am really thinking i am not going to buy this year, and ride areas without trails, give those local economies a boost, and ride the trails late to access my normal late season fishing access spots only. if our whole group did that.... it would be 8 permits the local club i normally help would not get. i hate to do it to my friends but, we need to send a message.

 

 

Ski

A couple of questions for you...

 

Who should eat the costs associated with the customs declaration?

Why should the OFSC or anyone eat the credit card transaction currency exchange fee for you. That is something your bank or credit card company tacks on. Nothing to do with the OFSC.

Every time I travel in the U.S. I get dinged on my credit card for currency exchange fees. Who should I complain to, the gas station, the restaurant or the hotel and tell them they need to cut their costs for me since I will get dinged on the exchange from my credit card company?

 

It seems that if read this correctly you expect the OFSC to sell you a discounted permit AND then eat all of the real costs associated with the fact that you live in the U.S. Essentially that would tick off a whole lot of people in Ontario since if they ate those costs that would mean they collect even less than the $180 for the permit from an American than they do from those in Ontario.

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That was order number... how many of those 45,691 orders were for multiple permits and not just single permits. If 50% of them were for two permits. That would be 68,536 permits. It has been suggested the OFSC would have the sales reports immediately, likely Mon Nov 4

As you had to do one order per sled ownership my wife had to order and pay for her own permit. She wasn't happy. :angry-smiley-005:

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 But if you don't buy a permit, and can't ride legally in Ontario, who do you think will hear your message?

 

BTW, if you don't cover the costs associated with your permit purchase, who should cover those costs for you? An Ontario resident? 

 

Who said i (we) would be riding illegally? riding crown land in closed non ofsc areas (white river, manitouwadge ect...), trailer and ride bush roads not on ofsc trails,  and only to and from fishing lakes with equipment. following the rules, i would be riding leagally without a permit.

 

as far as having someone else cover the cost of MY permit, i am not asking for that, i am asking why it is touted a discounted early early rate, and i pay more than the regular early rate? Ski

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As you had to do one order per sled ownership my wife had to order and pay for her own permit. She wasn't happy. :angry-smiley-005:

I orderd two permits. One for my sled and one for my wifes sled on one order.

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Sorry but you are mistaken... this is not my opinion. Like I said I did my homework. I spoke to our corporate customs broker

 

 

what i pointed out is no where in the ofsc guidelines does it say this. you are getting your info from your personal workplace experience not the ofsc. nothing more, nothing less. you are reading waaaaay too far into this. Ski

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Ski,

 

It's a new process, somewhat rushed and obviously rubs some prior purchasers the wrong way. You've experienced the 'one on one' purchase from a club volunteer via telephone or fax, as many have in the past (from central and Northern retailers). That's toast, for now.

 

If I can assist, please let me know. You purchase; ship to me.  I store and re-ship. Just give me the word. Send a PM.

 

They won't be shipped until November and I have a trip to "Leafs beat Buffalo" mid November. Would gladly ship them to you once in the states. 

 

Can I also suggest that you investigate sales at the Novi Sled show in Michigan. It's this weekend, if I recall, and since it's post November 1st physical permits should be available for sale. $210 instead of $187.50 - Canadian. 

 

Kinda funny that permits may be available at an American show but not in Canada.  

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what i pointed out is no where in the ofsc guidelines does it say this. you are getting your info from your personal workplace experience not the ofsc. nothing more, nothing less. you are reading waaaaay too far into this. Ski

Bottom line... border regulations apply universally whether it's the OFSC selling and shipping a product or whether it's a commercial retailer. I don't need to ask the OFSC what the border regulations are. Reality is that likely nobody in their office are well versed in them anyhow. Ensuring that the regulations are complied with would be the responsibility of the 3rd party fullfillment company they contracted with.

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A couple of questions for you...

 

Who should eat the costs associated with the customs declaration?

Why should the OFSC or anyone eat the credit card transaction currency exchange fee for you. That is something your bank or credit card company tacks on. Nothing to do with the OFSC.

Every time I travel in the U.S. I get dinged on my credit card for currency exchange fees. Who should I complain to, the gas station, the restaurant or the hotel and tell them they need to cut their costs for me since I will get dinged on the exchange from my credit card company?

 

It seems that if read this correctly you expect the OFSC to sell you a discounted permit AND then eat all of the real costs associated with the fact that you live in the U.S. Essentially that would tick off a whole lot of people in Ontario since if they ate those costs that would mean they collect even less than the $180 for the permit from an American than they do from those in Ontario.

again, i am not asking anyone to eat any cost for me. i am asking why tout this as everyone can save on the early early, when clearly a tourist cannot. nothing more, nothing less.

 

and i am asking for people to have an open mind to look for possible suggestion to change this some way if possible to help add more permit sales to non resident tourists. or another nail in lost tourism dollars will go into the winter sports coffin. ask the hunting and fishing outfitters how the added costs and nickel and diming tourists have affected their booking of u.s tourists. Ski

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Ski,

 

It's a new process, somewhat rushed and obviously rubs some prior purchasers the wrong way. You've experienced the 'one on one' purchase from a club volunteer via telephone or fax, as many have in the past (from central and Northern retailers). That's toast, for now.

 

If I can assist, please let me know. You purchase; ship to me.  I store and re-ship. Just give me the word. Send a PM.

 

They won't be shipped until November and I have a trip to "Leafs beat Buffalo" mid November. Would gladly ship them to you once in the states. 

 

Can I also suggest that you investigate sales at the Novi Sled show in Michigan. It's this weekend, if I recall, and since it's post November 1st physical permits should be available for sale. $210 instead of $187.50 - Canadian. 

 

Kinda funny that permits may be available at an American show but not in Canada.  

 appreciate the offer canuck but, most cc companies will not allow billing to one address and shipping to another. fraud being the key factor in this.

 

really i dont care one way or another for me. i am one of the biggest promoters of snowmobiling in northern ontario. it is the masses of non resident tourists that already hear of the high trail permit pricing, and now adding even more fees while touting a "discount". you wont ever be able to break through to these people to add them as permit buyers. this becomes a permenant problem when trying to entice non resident tourists to add more permit sales on a more than one time only deal. Ski

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again, i am not asking anyone to eat any cost for me. i am asking why tout this as everyone can save on the early early, when clearly a tourist cannot. nothing more, nothing less.

 

and i am asking for people to have an open mind to look for possible suggestion to change this some way if possible to help add more permit sales to non resident tourists. or another nail in lost tourism dollars will go into the winter sports coffin. ask the hunting and fishing outfitters how the added costs and nickel and diming tourists have affected their booking of u.s tourists. Ski

Every system changes and evolves. I suspect that there will be things learned this year that will provide enhancements for next year. Perhaps there will be similar to a will call for picking up tickets where you can order trail permits online and pick them up from your local club at a later date. It is something the local club may want to promote to encourage people to designate their club as the club of choice. Given the short time they had to put this in place I think it worked pretty good. No new system ever gets implemented without some growing pains.

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again, i am not asking anyone to eat any cost for me. i am asking why tout this as everyone can save on the early early, when clearly a tourist cannot. nothing more, nothing less.

 

and i am asking for people to have an open mind to look for possible suggestion to change this some way if possible to help add more permit sales to non resident tourists. or another nail in lost tourism dollars will go into the winter sports coffin. ask the hunting and fishing outfitters how the added costs and nickel and diming tourists have affected their booking of u.s tourists. Ski

The OFSC was created as a grass roots organization to promote snowmobiling and to give all the riders in the province some place to ride. It is not our mandate to promote tourism or to give out of province riders a cheap vacation. Too many businesses think the OFSC "VOLUNTEERS" are their personal work crews meant only to give them a 4th season of income. While some businesses put something back into the sport either through club support or volunteering their time many do not. We pump a lot of money into the provincial and tourism coffers and don't anywhere near our share back out of it. We do it so we have a place to ride.

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 appreciate the offer canuck but, most cc companies will not allow billing to one address and shipping to another. fraud being the key factor in this.

 

really i dont care one way or another for me. i am one of the biggest promoters of snowmobiling in northern ontario. it is the masses of non resident tourists that already hear of the high trail permit pricing, and now adding even more fees while touting a "discount". you wont ever be able to break through to these people to add them as permit buyers. this becomes a permenant problem when trying to entice non resident tourists to add more permit sales on a more than one time only deal. Ski

I don't know if this shipping to another address is an American situation or not. I order and ship to a different address such as my office or my mother and my brother which is not my billing address all the time. My permits are being delivered to my office. I do know for example though that it is a major pain in the butt when I travel in the U.S. and want to buy gas. To pay at the pump I need to enter a zip code which I don't have. I have to go into the gas station process my card for what I think it will take and then go back in to get a refund essentially if I don't use it all. It appears credit card processing may be different between Canada and U.S.

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Ordered mine online today... took about 5 mins no problems..

 

I held off on the classic one for my second sled, I'll pick that up in person so my club doesn't get hit with the $7.50 processing fee.

 

 

there is NO $7.50 processing fee for the Classics

 

I bought my Classic last week btw

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The OFSC was created as a grass roots organization to promote snowmobiling and to give all the riders in the province some place to ride. It is not our mandate to promote tourism or to give out of province riders a cheap vacation.

 

this is where you are not seeing the big picture. yes, the ofsc does promote tourism (adds in every major snowsport publication worldwide). this helps out the trails, the clubs, the districts, the region, and the province, and ALL OF IT'S RIDERS FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, with added trail permit sales, resident and non resident tourism dollars.  

 

saying things like that, and people seeing things like this make them feel they are not wanted nor welcomed in ontario. is this the message you really want to send?

 

what you personally said there is, YOU AND THE OFSC dont care about resident, and non resident tourism dollars in your club, district and local businesses. i would bet more than a few in your locale would beg to differ with you. And i am sure the ofsc does not take the same stance, as what you are saying they do.

 

Ski

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 ... it is the masses of non resident tourists that already hear of the high trail permit pricing, and now adding even more fees while touting a "discount". Ski

 

Want to know how confusing it is? I talked to one guy at the Toronto sled show who said "wasn't the discount $50 last year? Seems less of a discount this year".  I shook my head (and banged his) - then explained the pricing tiers.

 

Can't squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. Final numbers will be in by Friday. 

 

Figure out a way, Ski.  I think there's a way to make these purchases without getting hosed.

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 I do know for example though that it is a major pain in the butt when I travel in the U.S. and want to buy gas. To pay at the pump I need to enter a zip code which I don't have. 

If you use AmEx, enter 5 zeros.  If you have Visa or Mastercard, enter the 3 numbers from your postal code and 2 zeros.  Once in a while, you'll find a stationthat has this backwards, so don't hesitate to try the opposite.

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Want to know how confusing it is? I talked to one guy at the Toronto sled show who said "wasn't the discount $50 last year? Seems less of a discount this year".  I shook my head (and banged his) - then explained the pricing tiers.

 

Can't squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. Final numbers will be in by Friday. 

 

Figure out a way, Ski.  I think there's a way to make these purchases without getting hosed.

 canuck, i will figure a way to get my club their monies from me.

 

truely i am here to entice a spirited debate, to help the longevity of organized sledding from a tourist point of view.

in reality... those that know, dont need to be enticed to ontario's trails and associated costs (the costs are the costs). those that need to be reached are the fence sitters, who only see the percieved high cost of permits, and associated fees when they are "thinking" about a trip or trips to ontario. when they see/hear this, they think twice, and go somewhere where they percieve the value to be better, and where they feel they are "wanted" for their economic impact to the area they choose to spend their hard earned money and vacation time at. Ski 

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this is where you are not seeing the big picture. yes, the ofsc does promote tourism (adds in every major snowsport publication worldwide). this helps out the trails, the clubs, the districts, the region, and the province, and ALL OF IT'S RIDERS FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, with added trail permit and non resident tourism dollars.  

 

saying things like that, and people seeing things like this make them feel they are not wanted nor welcomed in ontario. is this the message you really want to send?

 

what you personally said there is, YOU AND THE OFSC dont care about non resident tourism dollars in you club, district and local businesses. i would bet more than a few in your locale would beg to differ with you. And i am sure the ofsc does not take the same stance, as what you are saying they do.

 

Ski

It's not about excluding out of province riders but how to get the most out of what we have. The OFSC can't be everything to everybody. They have to prioritize and go where they are going to get the most return for their effort. The actual paid staff at the OFSC office is a very small group with a lot of stuff to do. To put out of province riders first to try to maximize tourism doesn't do much for us. For the most part tourism dollars do not filter back to the clubs. Our money is in the local ridership and trying to get a lot of idle sleds back out onto the snow and buying permits.

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It's not about excluding out of province riders but how to get the most out of what we have. The OFSC can't be everything to everybody. They have to prioritize and go where they are going to get the most return for their effort. The actual paid staff at the OFSC office is a very small group with a lot of stuff to do. To put out of province riders first to try to maximize tourism doesn't do much for us. For the most part tourism dollars do not filter back to the clubs. Our money is in the local ridership and trying to get a lot of idle sleds back out onto the snow and buying permits.

 

 

Depending on your location

 

Kenora permits are 40% out of Province sales and I am sure some other clubs have similar sales yet the vast majority are local like you say

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Depending on your location

 

Kenora permits are 40% out of Province sales and I am sure some other clubs have similar sales yet the vast majority are local like you say

 

Really hope that 'early early bird' ("EEB) pricing works for them. In a way, it was designed for the north - no 'instore sales' requiring vast distances to travel; challenges with a small volunteer base ( a built in fulfillment centre). 

 

As much as total EEB sales are key, the northern sales will be interesting.

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Really hope that 'early early bird' ("EEB) pricing works for them. In a way, it was designed for the north - no 'instore sales' requiring vast distances to travel; challenges with a small volunteer base ( a built in fulfillment centre). 

 

As much as total EEB sales are key, the northern sales will be interesting.

 

 

I think next yr will be better as how many people have not receive the info on the savings of the EEB, it should be better advertised next season

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there is NO $7.50 processing fee for the Classics

I bought my Classic last week btw

Yes there is, it was talked about earlier in this topic... But it's billed back to the Club not to the person buying the permit.

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Why not ride family day weekend ski. No permit required. Lots of us riders will be here then too. I feel your frustration with the current pricing system.

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Why not ride family day weekend ski. No permit required.

I understood that the Ride Our Trails Day DOES require a permit. The permit is issued at no cost, but you must have it or you can be charged. No?

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I understood that the Ride Our Trails Day DOES require a permit. The permit is issued at no cost, but you must have it or you can be charged. No?

I think I do remember something like that last year. It was just a printed out form from the website. Most likely so the OFSC can get your information and try and get you to buy next year, and to see how many people are actually using the free weekend.

But could you be charged? Doubt that, but stranger things have happened.

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