2013-2014 permits

[Canuck]

Thirty percent goes directly to the club. So the choice of club is very important.

 

Good question, Red Green.  As for 'trust', if you're a person who buys a permit and rides, you're bound to have questions and opinions. Heck, I filled up at a gas station that sells permits, and they had no idea what the current price is or the draft permit structure.

 

This is the time to communicate with riders and I hope the light turns green soon.

[whiskywizard]

Are we picking the club we would like to support or will the OFSC be delegating the money ?

Based on where I rode last year and the great trails that where maintained on a budget that saw them in the red by mid season I would skip the $180 to give them the $210.

I am not 100% sure if it would help but lately no really trusting OFSC decisions .

 

 

I get a little sick of people blaming the OFSC for the permit price. This was voted on by all clubs in the province and passed by about 80% majority.

 

I don't mean to speak for Red Green, but I don't think he was blaming OFSC for permit prices. To the contrary, I read it as him saying he's OK paying more to ensure the success of areas he rides in.  

 

And he said he doesn't trust OFSC to make the best decisions.  I have to agree with him there.

 

Back in October the OFSC promised me a communication plan would be developed and implemented.  I'm getting no official information at all. None. All I see are second-hand stories here, and rumours. I too have a trust issue right now. 

[FreezerBurnt]

I get a little sick of people blaming the OFSC for the permit price. This was voted on by all clubs in the province and passed by about 80% majority.

 

 

The OFSC is the clubs

[AkronOrange]

It's $210 from Nov 2 to Dec 1  Best that you get it from Luc again. That way they get 30% of the extra $30 and they should also get the fulfilment fee back from OFSC. A little more money for them.

Thanks!  That's how I will order mine.

[schmied]

Thirty percent goes directly to the club. So the choice of club is very important.

 

Curious if anyone has insite into the situation I'm in.  I ride out of Cambridge (Cambridge Sno-Gliders) to points beyond (Bridgeport Club, Maryhill, Elmira etc.)  The Sno-Gliders belong to the GTSA (Golden Triangle Snowmobile Association) so I'm not sure if it matters who I choose. The seem to share a groomer.  Also, the Cambridge section of trail is short, perhaps I'd be better off putting the Bridgeport club down, I do appreciate 'The Bus Stop'!

[2bsledding]

I don't mean to speak for Red Green, but I don't think he was blaming OFSC for permit prices. To the contrary, I read it as him saying he's OK paying more to ensure the success of areas he rides in.  

 

And he said he doesn't trust OFSC to make the best decisions.  I have to agree with him there.

 

Back in October the OFSC promised me a communication plan would be developed and implemented.  I'm getting no official information at all. None. All I see are second-hand stories here, and rumours. I too have a trust issue right now. 

District offices received a notice about the FFC permit price communications plan / kit. It is a marketing kit for use by Districts and Clubs from October to Nov 1st for the $180 permits as promised at AGM 2013 by the OFSC.  There is a list of marketing tools that include such things as banners, posters, newspaper ads, radio ads etc. However, it appears that the Clubs and Districts have to pay for this themselves. Can someone confirm this?

[Canuck]

If they're digital, I can't imagine there'd be a cost associated with them to Districts/Clubs.

 

Sure, someone paid for the design once (us!), but it can't be a source of profit for an enterprise.

[bbakernbay]

Yes the Clubs can use the tools provided anyway they wish to.

If a Club wants to advertise in the local newspaper, you can use the provided advertisement and pay the newspaper just like in the past. Same with radio spots.

With two deadlines now, print advertising gets expensive fast.

OFSC also supplies Press Release, web links, etc.

We are only going to have 3 weeks once we get the go ahead, certainly not an ideal situation, I hope it is a GO in the next day or two.

[Domino]

So ii's $180 before 11/1 direct from OFSC.  Does it go up to full price after 11/1 or will it be $210 for a period of time?  OFSC charges US a $20 processing for all of the extra work in sending to the states.  I ordered mine direct from Groomer Guy's club last year and plan on doing the same this year.

 

 

Mail it to me and I'll mail it to you.... No charge!

[Canuck]

We are only going to have 3 weeks once we get the go ahead, certainly not an ideal situation, I hope it is a GO in the next day or two.

 

Agreed.

 

I have a media slogan that may assist.

Why is Ontario snowmobiling like the $180 permit?

It's over in 3 weeks.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Wildbill]

Agreed.

 

I have a media slogan that may assist.

Why is Ontario snowmobiling like the $180 permit?

It's over in 3 weeks.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

yes I have a suggestion      get stuffed      

[Canuck]

Thanks, WB. It's a long season, unless you listen to Toronto media.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

Curious if anyone has insite into the situation I'm in.  I ride out of Cambridge (Cambridge Sno-Gliders) to points beyond (Bridgeport Club, Maryhill, Elmira etc.)  The Sno-Gliders belong to the GTSA (Golden Triangle Snowmobile Association) so I'm not sure if it matters who I choose. The seem to share a groomer.  Also, the Cambridge section of trail is short, perhaps I'd be better off putting the Bridgeport club down, I do appreciate 'The Bus Stop'!

 

Within the GTSA, clubs which sell permits get to keep some of the sale price of each permit they sell. Buy where you ride isa tough decision if you are riding a number of different clubs' trails each time you go out.

[Greggie]

The whole "Buy where you ride" is not important in ffc anymore. From every permit you sell, you net profit for the club/district is only 10% in most districts. Only district 4, who get no equalization money, the club get 30%.

Thanks,

Greg

[Wildman]

The whole "Buy where you ride" is not important in ffc anymore. From every permit you sell, you net profit for the club/district is only 10% in most districts. Only district 4, who get no equalization money, the club get 30%.

Thanks,

Greg

well that dosesn't make sence, the way I read it the selling entity gets 30%.......you seem to have funny ways of twisting things. It is still important to buy where you ride, the 30% helps.....at least it does most club/district's

[Greggie]

well that dosesn't make sence, the way I read it the selling entity gets 30%.......you seem to have funny ways of twisting things. It is still important to buy where you ride, the 30% helps.....at least it does most club/district's

Wildman,
I understand that ffc is tough to understand. Not only for snowmobilers but also for club executives. As example, if district 13 what is one permit selling entity is selling 1000 permits of $210, there permit sales is $210,000 and the clubs get $63,000. The equalization money for the district is $76x Kms and $62 x grooming hours and 10% of the sales. Say that is $500,000. Then the equalization money for the district is $500,000 - $63.000 = $437,000 + $21,000 = $458,000. Total money for the clubs and districts is $458,000 + $63,000 = $521,000. If they did any permit sales, they would get still $500,000. So the difference is only $21,000 what is the 10% of the permit sales.
Thanks,

Greg

[Sasquatch777]

Buy where you ride! Or your club could fall under the 50 permit cutoff and loose status as a OFSC member! Just sayin!

 

Plus the 30% is there in the begining its the 10% after the fact Greggie is talking about. Buy where you ride is still important. Why Greggie would try to get people to buy outside of where they ride I don't know! My club needs the 30% of permit sales to start up! If as Greggie suggest half of our usual permit sale went to another club we would only get half the amount of money at startup.

 

Now if no one bought any permits in a district because they followed Greggies advice all the clubs would loose status and the district would close! Seems like bad advice to me!

 

Buy where you ride! Or better yet don't buy any permits from Greggies District after all like he says it doesnt matter with FFC! Even if the district remained open with no permit sales why would you want to give up 10%?

[Canuck]

I wonder why clubs who sold 75-100 permits didn't make comments re: the 50 permit req't during the pre-AGM question-answer sessions. You once had the opportunity to look a customer in the eye; gauge how sales were going with vendors. Make adjustments like any business. In a few weeks, the bulk of sales will be completed.... online. Prior members knew who their historic club was and the need to support that club. Or didn't. New members --- they're a different breed. Unlikely most will know Club A from Club B, so that's a crapshoot.

[Greggie]

Buy where you ride! Or your club could fall under the 50 permit cutoff and loose status as a OFSC member! Just sayin!

Plus the 30% is there in the begining its the 10% after the fact Greggie is talking about. Buy where you ride is still important. Why Greggie would try to get people to buy outside of where they ride I don't know! My club needs the 30% of permit sales to start up! If as Greggie suggest half of our usual permit sale went to another club we would only get half the amount of money at startup.

Now if no one bought any permits in a district because they followed Greggies advice all the clubs would loose status and the district would close! Seems like bad advice to me!

Buy where you ride! Or better yet don't buy any permits from Greggies District after all like he says it doesnt matter with FFC! Even if the district remained open with no permit sales why would you want to give up 10%?

If nobody buy a permit this season, there will be no trails next year. What you will see more and more is that clubs merge their sales together to a permit selling entity. This to avoid the 50 permit rule.

This year, the problem will not be the start up money but it will be the season after February 15. In FFC, we don't know how much money we will get and the payment in July is too late for some clubs. Same as the march 15 payment.

Another thing, the $76 and $62 can become lower if there isn't enough permit sales. If the permit sales is down 10%, the $76 can become $62 and the $62 can become $50. This we don't know until late in the season.

Thanks

Greg

[f3 800]

Id like to know why its 7.50 postage and handling....isn't a stamp around 50 cents? where does the other 7 bucks go?..... I'd be happy with even a buck p&h.....if you buy a permit through a club they don't charge "handing fees"

[sledjunk]

Typically, there is a 2 - 3 percent fee charged by the credit card company / bank as well as the fee charged by the fulfillment service.

[bbakernbay]

Yes but we lose 3 percent one very credit card sale to reimburse our seller, so that is $5.50 per permit right off the top.

The Club bears all this cost even though a major portion goes to OFSC.

That is supposed to change.

You don't setup these systems for nothing, lots of tech time by our service company getting through MTO hoops.

I think $7.50 is a good deal for what they are doing.

[skidooboy]

supposedly this is not a "legal" process to add fees, because the buyers are using a credit card. most cc companies frown on this practice, and have been known to remove cc machines from vendors for this, if complaints are received. no one forces anyone to use or accept credit cards... it is done for the convenience of the vendor only. passing the cost on to the buyer is frowned upon in the cc world.

 

your results may vary. Ski

[Sasquatch777]

If nobody buy a permit this season, there will be no trails next year. What you will see more and more is that clubs merge their sales together to a permit selling entity. This to avoid the 50 permit rule.

This year, the problem will not be the start up money but it will be the season after February 15. In FFC, we don't know how much money we will get and the payment in July is too late for some clubs. Same as the march 15 payment.

Another thing, the $76 and $62 can become lower if there isn't enough permit sales. If the permit sales is down 10%, the $76 can become $62 and the $62 can become $50. This we don't know until late in the season.

Thanks

Greg

 

So then it does matter that you buy where you ride? I sales drop less money for the clubs. Is this new?

 

Damn there is a lot of doom and gloom going on!

[02Sled]

supposedly this is not a "legal" process to add fees, because the buyers are using a credit card. most cc companies frown on this practice, and have been known to remove cc machines from vendors for this, if complaints are received. no one forces anyone to use or accept credit cards... it is done for the convenience of the vendor only. passing the cost on to the buyer is frowned upon in the cc world.

 

your results may vary. Ski

I don't know that anyone is charging a fee for using a credit card. They are applying a handling charge. Buy or order anything online or over the phone and almost always there is shipping and handling fees. Even the large retailers and e-commerce have these fees. The other wild card in this is that each credit card whether it be Mastercard Visa or Amex have varying transaction fees that they charge the product seller. Even within for example the Visa family of cards there are varying rates depending upon the card issuer (bank) and the type of card, gold, platinum etc. or a rewards related version. Amex tends to carry the highest transaction fee.