2bsledding Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Just wondering how many Clubs are having a problem with their groomer batteries dying because the GPS system is drawing power 24/7? Our Club again this year is looking at having to replace 2 more batteries. BSM Wireless say they are not allowed to install (an easy to access) inline switch to cut the power, when the groomer is not in use. On 2 of our 3 groomers (tractors) you have to unbolt a cover located under the groomer which is located on the inside of the track to disconnect the battery. Not easy access. We are looking at easily, $250 ~ $300 again this year for deep cell batteries. That's about 3 permits worth of Club revenue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Ditto x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 This isn't good news. We have half a dozen groomers and this could get expensive real quick. Do you think the geniuses in Barrie did this by themselves or did they have a survey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What kind of GPS units are these thing? I would guess the groomers have a good sized battery in them. A GPS transceiver should run for weeks on a battery. To be killing batteries in a day or two, you would have to be drawing a crap load of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What kind of GPS units are these thing? I would guess the groomers have a good sized battery in them. A GPS transceiver should run for weeks on a battery. To be killing batteries in a day or two, you would have to be drawing a crap load of power. I'd have to agree with you there, GPS units shouldn't draw much power at all, insignificant during the grooming season if the battery and charging system are in good shape. Why not consider a battery tender unit? I use these for my off season battery storage requirements and know numerous folks who are having great success with them when storing vintage vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Are we talking about the brand new units, or the older models that were very inaccurate? If installed properly there should not be a major drain on the system, unless they were installed with another circuit that draws large amps? A battery tender on the deep cycle should rectify any discharging issues. Our older tracking units said we never groomed from Haliburton to Whitney. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What kind of GPS units are these thing? I would guess the groomers have a good sized battery in them. A GPS transceiver should run for weeks on a battery. To be killing batteries in a day or two, you would have to be drawing a crap load of power. Don't forget, these are not just GPS receivers, but also transmitters to sent status data to the system. They are killing the batteries because they are on 24 /7 all through the off season when the groomers are not running and recharging the batteries. We are having similar issues as well, even though we have recharged the batteries over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariof7 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Don't forget, these are not just GPS receivers, but also transmitters to sent status data to the system. They are killing the batteries because they are on 24 /7 all through the off season when the groomers are not running and recharging the batteries. We are having similar issues as well, even though we have recharged the batteries over the summer. Stop using the same charger that you used for the '07 Vector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Don't forget, these are not just GPS receivers, but also transmitters to sent status data to the system. They are killing the batteries because they are on 24 /7 all through the off season when the groomers are not running and recharging the batteries. We are having similar issues as well, even though we have recharged the batteries over the summer. Even a GPS transmitter is going to draw almost nothing. Simple case, my Spot tracker will transmit a GPS location actuate with in 10 feet back to the satilitte for 36hours on 3 AA batters once I push the button. That's only 5volts at about 1200mA of power. I've worked on the GPS tracker units they put in transport trucks, and those are 12volts @ 2amps. A deep cycle battery would power that all summer before the battery went dead. I'm sure what thebOFSC is using is something almost the same. I'd be looking deeper than the GPS unit for what's killing the batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Even a GPS transmitter is going to draw almost nothing. Simple case, my Spot tracker will transmit a GPS location actuate with in 10 feet back to the satilitte for 36hours on 3 AA batters once I push the button. That's only 5volts at about 1200mA of power. I've worked on the GPS tracker units they put in transport trucks, and those are 12volts @ 2amps. A deep cycle battery would power that all summer before the battery went dead. I'm sure what thebOFSC is using is something almost the same. I'd be looking deeper than the GPS unit for what's killing the batteries. If you're right that they draw 2A (and I bet you are right), then they would kill a very high quality deep-cycle gel cell in less than 2 days. Depending on quality and technology, a 12V group 31 deep cycle is somewhere between 100 and 120A-h. At 2A, every 24h you're depleting the battery by 1/2. After 24h, you're already irreparably damaging the battery. At about 30h, it's technically dead. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Why not just install a circuit that if the voltage goes below 12volts, it turns everything off automatically. Alot of vehicles have this now, to ensure the Vechiles will start after sitting for longer periods of time. Trickle charges. Work well too, but if there is that much of a drain, they will burn out quick over time, nor designed for constant charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Don't forget, these are not just GPS receivers, but also transmitters to sent status data to the system. They are killing the batteries because they are on 24 /7 all through the off season when the groomers are not running and recharging the batteries. We are having similar issues as well, even though we have recharged the batteries over the summer. Why would these be set up/ installed so that they are on 24/7 365? Perhaps the OFSC can start paying for new batteries. There is no need for them to be functional in the off season. For that matter when not grooming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Why would these be set up/ installed so that they are on 24/7 365? Perhaps the OFSC can start paying for new batteries. There is no need for them to be functional in the off season. For that matter when not grooming. I think they are being big brother. I can understand the switch thing, cause operators could forget to turn them on. They should automatically shut down if the vechie hasn't moved for say 30 mins. Need to have an automatic circuit that turns everything off except starting circuit when voltage dips below 12volts. My vechile does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I think they are being big brother. I can understand the switch thing, cause operators could forget to turn them on. They should automatically shut down if the vechie hasn't moved for say 30 mins. Need to have an automatic circuit that turns everything off except starting circuit when voltage dips below 12volts. My vechile does this. I agree...but kicking in with a safety minded approach...maybe not a good idea to shut off the GPS if the groomer hasn't moved in a given time frame or even a voltage drop. Just playing devils advocate. If the groomer op was to have a heart attack or for lack of other explanation become incapacitated..it might be a good thing on one hand to keep transmitting. What if a groomer was sunk? If it was me..I'd want somebody on the red and green switch contacts to get help to me. Having said that..I also don't think it should be able to be switchable or disabled. BUT...why are these things killing batteries so fast? Maybe a battery tender charger should have been included??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 As I understand it from our groomer coordinators, when they were installed, the installers had no idea what an industrial groomer was, or its duty cycle. There are limited options to the clubs to change things without the installer / service company being involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is there a reason the GPS system has to be live all the time? If not, a simple battery disconnect switch installed in the positive lead adjacent to the battery would kill all groomer systems. The operator would close the switch as Step 1 upon arriving at the machine, and open the switch as Step Last after he shuts it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchrocket500 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is there a reason the GPS system has to be live all the time? If not, a simple battery disconnect switch installed in the positive lead adjacent to the battery would kill all groomer systems. The operator would close the switch as Step 1 upon arriving at the machine, and open the switch as Step Last after he shuts it down. yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliotgroomer Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Most equipment today have keep alive memory associated with clocks radios computers etc. The OFSC spyware is an added burden. 15 years ago we started to install master switches on our groomers. Flipping this switch disconnects the battery no draw no problem. This also has the added benifit of protecting computers in the groomer should you have to do any welding on the machine or the drag. Just started our groomers last week after being parked since March, just turned on master switch got in and started right up. The only thing we had to do then was reset the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I agree...but kicking in with a safety minded approach...maybe not a good idea to shut off the GPS if the groomer hasn't moved in a given time frame or even a voltage drop. Just playing devils advocate. If the groomer op was to have a heart attack or for lack of other explanation become incapacitated..it might be a good thing on one hand to keep transmitting. What if a groomer was sunk? If it was me..I'd want somebody on the red and green switch contacts to get help to me. Having said that..I also don't think it should be able to be switchable or disabled. BUT...why are these things killing batteries so fast? Maybe a battery tender charger should have been included??? are they not tracked real time. If it shows up on the tracking as not moving you will have the last identified point and if you can't reach the driver send help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 are they not tracked real time. If it shows up on the tracking as not moving you will have the last identified point and if you can't reach the driver send help. only if they have cell reception. If they are out of cell range they store the info and send it when they get cell range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If safety is the primary concern isn't it better to have the drivers carry a SPOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Our groomer operators all carry a SPOT unit and are instructed to attach it to their clothing when they leave the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliotgroomer Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 We have both the spot and the sentinel. The problem with the system when out of cell range is suppose to be fixed. The unit is suppose to update by sattelite every 30 min when out of cell coverage then fill in the rest when back in cell coverage. At least you will have real time tracking every 30 min. The help functions are suppose to work anytime anwhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If the groomer was sunk, I bet it wouldn't transmitt anymore anyway, especially if the water is several meters deep. Spot is better but pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Spot is not all that it's cracked up to be. The Globalstar sats that Spot runs on are very old and outdated. I have more than once had mine on all day, gone home and logged into my account only to see a couple of waypoints. They need a fairly clear view of the sky to be "spot" on accurate. I have seen cheap GPS cycling watches with better accuracy than Spot. I like the "master switch" installation method mentioned. More money out of the clubs pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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